Personal Growth Through Social Support with Dr. Hansa Bhargava
In this episode of “Embark Sessions,” Rob discusses social support and its impact on mental health with Hansa Bhargava, mom, pediatrician, and Chief Clinical Officer of Medscape. Hansa and Rob discuss the importance of finding mentors early in life, and how community is essential for maintaining a healthy balance. Hansa explains how her “C’s” (compassion, connection, communication, and calm) help her manage the stresses of day-to-day life as a parent and pediatrician.
Related Blogs:
https://www.embarkbh.com/blog/how-to-take-care-of-yourself-so-you-can-take-care-of-your-child/
https://www.embarkbh.com/blog/how-much-stress-is-too-much-a-caregivers-guide/
Related Videos:
School Anxiety: How to Help Your Child | Roadmap to Joy
How to Improve Teen Mental Health
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About Dr. Bhargava:
Hansa Bhargava, MD, is Chief Medical Officer at Medscape Education. Her leadership includes leading innovation-driven initiatives for physicians and healthcare professionals, with a focus on issues of resilience, burnout, and mental health.
She has practiced for over 10 years and was previously Senior Medical Director at WebMD. She has extensive experience in producing digital content and partnership collaboration, and is a board-certified pediatrician and the author of “Building Happier Kids: Stress-busting Tools for Parents.”
Find out more:
About Rob:
Rob Gent, M.A. LPC, is the Chief Clinical Officer and one of the founding members of Embark Behavioral Health. Rob has been with the company for 15 years and has led the Embark organization in the clinical development and growth of numerous programs. He is the lead developer of the proprietary CASA Developmental Framework, which is pervasive throughout Embark’s programs.
Through his dedication to advancing clinical development, practice, and research, he has become a nationally recognized expert in the field. His specialization in clinical development is enhanced by his therapeutic expertise and has yielded such accomplishments as the development of; The CASA Developmental Framework, Vive Family Intensive Program, Calo Preteens, Canine Attachment Therapy-Transferable Attachment Program, and other specialized programs.
Transcript
Well welcome everybody to our Sessions podcast. I can't tell
Speaker:you how privileged I am to have our guests on, I would say 100%.
Speaker:I'm immensely privileged to spend our time with Dr. Hansa
Speaker:Bhargava, she listed on her website I got a big smile on her
Speaker:this she's a renowned speaker, an author, but she lists on her
Speaker:website, she's a mom, first a pediatrician. And a
Speaker:nutritionist. And somebody as, you guys know, I'm super
Speaker:concerned with Holistic Health, and not just compartmentalizing
Speaker:when we look at health and development and functionality.
Speaker:But I love that she recognizes that she's like everybody else.
Speaker:I'm a mom. And I do have expertise and being a
Speaker:pediatrician. And of course, I'm fascinated to talk about
Speaker:nutrition and the gut brain access and how that affects us.
Speaker:But Dr. Bhargava, has an exceptional purposely driven
Speaker:life that has taken her from being the senior medical
Speaker:director of WebMD, to the Chief Medical Officer of Medscape.
Speaker:She's often relied on as an expert for the White House, and
Speaker:has an x is an extraordinary author who has facilitated
Speaker:parent coaching, teachings in reduction of anxiety and stress,
Speaker:and really talking about holistic health. So I am just, I
Speaker:just can't say thank you enough to be able to spend some time
Speaker:with you, and to hear your story and some convictions that you
Speaker:have and some maybe some techniques in helping us as
Speaker:psychotherapist and parents. So Dr. Bhargava. Welcome,
Speaker:Rob, thank you so much. And that was such a kind introduction.
Speaker:But I'm truly honored to actually have met you to have
Speaker:met Sabrina to know of your organization because you're
Speaker:doing tremendous work. So thank you for being here.
Speaker:Well, thank you so much. Well, I'd like to start off with just
Speaker:telling us, yeah, what got you into this tell us a little bit
Speaker:about Of course, I love the story. But where did it begin
Speaker:for? You? would just love to hear that?
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely. Well, if you really want to know about my
Speaker:beginning, I should struggle to in childhood, right?
Speaker:Yes, yes.
Speaker:And so I always, I was born in Canada, raised in Canada by an
Speaker:immigrant mom, you know, my, my parents actually got divorced
Speaker:when I was about 10, or 11 years old. And my I had two younger
Speaker:sisters. So my mom had a tremendous influence on me, both
Speaker:from the cultural aspect where, you know, she was trying to
Speaker:straddle straddle the line between, like her old culture
Speaker:and the new Canadian culture. And then also, of course, being
Speaker:a single parent and being courageous in that regard. And,
Speaker:you know, holding down like a job getting, you know, educated
Speaker:in different courses, which would make her more, you have
Speaker:even better job opportunities and raising three little girls
Speaker:all at the same time. So I mean, I can't tell you what an
Speaker:inspiration she has been and to me in my life, and how even that
Speaker:time of wonderfulness, but adversity too, you know, trying
Speaker:to kind of be in that middle class environment. My mom was an
Speaker:educated person, she had a master's degree in Sanskrit,
Speaker:which was is an ancient Indian language, but unfortunately, not
Speaker:very relevant in the 70s and 80s, in Canada. And so, you
Speaker:know, she had to re educate herself, taking college courses
Speaker:in various computer science, whatnot, while kind of holding
Speaker:down a job in the daytime and raising these kids. And so there
Speaker:was adversity. I mean, I think it was hard, it was not easy.
Speaker:But I think that, you know, my purpose and my main, like line
Speaker:through all of what I teach is kind of rooted in that because I
Speaker:understood how important it is to ground, the kids to also make
Speaker:sure that there's a family unit, that there's connections and
Speaker:communications. And that is like what I have taken with me
Speaker:wherever I have gone. So I'll stop right there.
Speaker:My mind is running wild. Mom, just three girls holy cow. That
Speaker:that is a lot to manage. So she in many ways has modeled this
Speaker:resiliency, I you know, if that's the term I love that you
Speaker:use the term adversity. When, if I can ask, When does your
Speaker:identity and this sense of maybe well being or I'd love how you
Speaker:defined it, when does that start to form for you?
Speaker:Yeah, and I think it was the kitchen tables, discussion. I
Speaker:like to eat dinner and she always she always insisted that
Speaker:we should eat dinner together. You know, no matter how many
Speaker:things we were running to and from as as we grew up, and so I
Speaker:think, you know, having that also like having a village, we
Speaker:had a community where we would celebrate certain events, but
Speaker:also summers, long, lazy summers with my uncle at my uncle's
Speaker:place in New Jersey, you know, and she was very close to her
Speaker:brother. So all of that kind of contributed, those are all like
Speaker:ingredients in the recipe, right. And then, of course, the
Speaker:will to do good and be good, you know, to constantly like, not
Speaker:just be ambitious and and be driven to put education at the
Speaker:forefront, but also to constantly have that moral code,
Speaker:the ethical code to look at people like they are you, like,
Speaker:you know, they're just like you and always be good no matter
Speaker:what walk of life they're coming from, and to try and help the
Speaker:greater good. So I think those are values she gave us. And from
Speaker:there, you know, I took that to medical school, I wanted to go
Speaker:to medical school, because I was really interested in health, and
Speaker:I wanted to help others. And then I went into pediatrics,
Speaker:because honestly, and I don't know, if you agree with this,
Speaker:Rob, but teens and kids are so unique in terms of helping them
Speaker:right? Because you have the possibility and the opportunity
Speaker:to influence such a long trajectory of life, right? A
Speaker:long trajectory of health, whether it's physical, mental,
Speaker:or emotional, and to really do good in a person's life over a
Speaker:long period of time. So that's what attracted me to pediatrics
Speaker:and to kids and teens.
Speaker:Was that something that you knew, even in high school, like,
Speaker:Oh, I'm gonna be pre med in undergrad? And I'm gonna go on
Speaker:it was that?
Speaker:No, oh,
Speaker:I didn't know that my school. And that kind of goes back to
Speaker:you know what, people it's funny, because I was talking to
Speaker:a mom yesterday that at a at a parent event, and she said,
Speaker:Well, how do you? How do you make career pivots? You know,
Speaker:like, how do you actually change? And what you know, she
Speaker:asked me specifically, so interesting, Rob, like to have
Speaker:this conversation right after on the heels of that conversation.
Speaker:But she asked me specifically, she's like, what, what makes
Speaker:makes you brave enough to kind of just jump, right? You've
Speaker:jumped several times in your career. And, and I said, because
Speaker:I want to grow as a person, right. And so what also
Speaker:contributed was that in high school, I thought I wanted to be
Speaker:an engineer, right? I was a geek, I was a nerd. And I loved
Speaker:science and physics. And I love science fiction. And I still do,
Speaker:by the way, and I love like movies that are science
Speaker:fictiony. And, and so that's what I thought I would want to
Speaker:be, you know, and I wanted to be an astronaut or an engineer or
Speaker:an aeronautical engineer. But then, you know, I was, I was
Speaker:really lucky to have someone who influenced my life. She was a
Speaker:doctor, who was in our community, and she's doing such
Speaker:great work and helping patients. And I was like, wow, like,
Speaker:that's really cool. So, you know, I changed around the age
Speaker:of 18 to 19. And decided to go down, like the pre med track. So
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:So now you're at 19, you recognize, oh boy, I want to
Speaker:integrate not only my analytical mind, but this humanitarian,
Speaker:really values proposition to say play, how do I integrate those
Speaker:together? Wow, fascinating. And then when you go to pre med,
Speaker:when does this thing of oh, I'm going to be a pediatrician. When
Speaker:does that? How does that?
Speaker:so I think it was probably in my third or fourth year of medical
Speaker:school, we went through the different specialties and again,
Speaker:like, I was considering several of them but again, like the, I
Speaker:think it's two things from it's like, you know, what's the main
Speaker:theme? What's your main purpose at that time is to help people
Speaker:okay, so I want to help people, but it's also just like that
Speaker:doctor who influenced me to kind of pivot to medicine, it's also
Speaker:people around you the influencers in your life, I
Speaker:guess. Right. And so, you know, that, you know, again, I was
Speaker:influenced by my mentors, my teachers, you know, the people
Speaker:that I liked, and so, you know, we went on my pediatric rotation
Speaker:and, you know, really loved these people. They were just so
Speaker:mission driven, and just, you know, great people like Susan
Speaker:Tallaght, she was my program director at the Hospital for
Speaker:Sick Children. And I had just so much respect and admiration for
Speaker:the way that she led her life. She was from South Africa
Speaker:actually. And, and, and just, you know, was just enamored by
Speaker:by the doctors who taught me and so I think that's, you know,
Speaker:that, of course, influences you. Right? Like, they talk about
Speaker:that in high school and school for kids and teens. You know,
Speaker:find somebody who can be like their coach, you know, outside
Speaker:of their family who they're enamored by that a soccer coach,
Speaker:is it their physics teacher, you know, is it their health
Speaker:teacher, their math teacher, and they have a huge influence,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Yeah, we always talk about mentorship is really one of
Speaker:those key things is finding those people but it's
Speaker:interesting because we're hearing a lot more difficulty
Speaker:for parents finding that mentor for their kids or their kids,
Speaker:aren't you as active in sports are those people aren't as
Speaker:readily available anymore? It's really, I don't know, if you're
Speaker:experiencing the same thing, but it's fascinating.
Speaker:I think it's very hard. I think it needs to be. I think it's so
Speaker:hard in so many ways. And I could talk more about that and
Speaker:would love your thoughts, Rob, because you're such an expert
Speaker:yourself. But I think it's about the village. And, you know, if
Speaker:we look back at humanity, a different countries, different
Speaker:cultures, there's a few threads that are the same, right? And I
Speaker:think that threads that are the same is connection community,
Speaker:right. So as we go along, whether you go to church or
Speaker:temple or anything else, we had those people in our lives, was
Speaker:it the priest, you know, was the rabbi was it, you know, was it
Speaker:you know, your uncle or the next door neighbor, and we were still
Speaker:connected, right, like we were when, you know, I don't know,
Speaker:20 3050 100 years ago, it seems like we lost that opportunity.
Speaker:And I think that's what I wrote about in my book, like the
Speaker:overscheduling. The running and running and running, and the
Speaker:race to nowhere almost has, has had a side effect, it's had side
Speaker:effects. So kind of derailing this essential threads we need
Speaker:as humans,
Speaker:my mind is really just, it's running what wild. Because I
Speaker:keep thinking back to the pattern that you were even
Speaker:saying, as a child, you had this village in Toronto, I had
Speaker:community, I had village and just translating it into my
Speaker:psychotherapeutic language, that there was a place, that village
Speaker:probably helped to be a focal point for stress management,
Speaker:that I would just use the term co regulation, there were secure
Speaker:attachment figures, a secure base that were all around you,
Speaker:that when things were stressful, you could go back to that, and
Speaker:maybe not even knowing it. And I know in today's society where
Speaker:we're slipping away from having that village mentality, and I
Speaker:wonder if maybe if you can speak a little bit about as being a
Speaker:stress management expert, like, did that function as a stress
Speaker:mitigator and without the without that what's happening?
Speaker:Completely? I agree with you. So you look at you, people may look
Speaker:at my career and say, wow, you know, you've been successful,
Speaker:but what is that success coming from? And I, you know, I could
Speaker:easily, you know, people can say, Oh, well, it's a success is
Speaker:because my education, or, you know, my ambition or drive, but
Speaker:I really think the success, like success and happiness is rooted
Speaker:in that connection. Right. And that village, I truly believe
Speaker:that. And, you know, I think that for my own childhood, and
Speaker:even now, you know, I went back to see my sister for a few days.
Speaker:And, you know, I was, we have times in our lives, where, you
Speaker:know, we're more connected or less connected. And over the
Speaker:last few weeks I've been so, you know, so encompassed by work,
Speaker:that I felt a little bit disconnected when I went to see
Speaker:my sister, I was like, you know, I need some grounding. Actually,
Speaker:I need something. And it wasn't intentional that that happened
Speaker:at the same time. But when I actually hung out with my
Speaker:sister, and my mom, you know, and her family, after a few
Speaker:days, I was okay, now I feel grounded again. I feel stable,
Speaker:and now I can run again. And so just saying that, to your point,
Speaker:like, I do think that we need to, as a society, make that a
Speaker:priority, and set boundaries and say, No, I'm going to safeguard
Speaker:this because this is what feeds me. This is what feeds my
Speaker:emotional strength. It feeds my mental strength, it feeds my
Speaker:soul. And, you know, I think I think I wish that that's the
Speaker:message that people hear from my book, from my talks, that, you
Speaker:know, we must stop, and we must prioritize, and figure out, you
Speaker:know, what we really think is important. And that was
Speaker:important for 1000s of years. And our brain has not changed in
Speaker:50 years. It is the same human brain, you know, this, right.
Speaker:Like, we all know this.
Speaker:Yeah, but we always think there's, you know, there's
Speaker:something new under the sun, this generation is unlike any
Speaker:other I'm gonna always smile, right? Because there's not we
Speaker:have new technology. But yeah, and I wanted to point out that I
Speaker:wonder how many people and I know your book does such a good
Speaker:job of talking about this, I would encourage everybody to get
Speaker:the book, of course, but is that I wonder how many people just
Speaker:even adults in this state aren't even aware that what this
Speaker:grounding could be or what it should be? We're just were so
Speaker:fast paced, running, running,
Speaker:sprinting, you're on the treadmill. Yeah. So I would say
Speaker:two things. One is look, I talk about the C's a lot like the
Speaker:C's, so you know, make room for the Cs you know, as a parent, as
Speaker:a teacher, as a person, right? We all need room for the seas
Speaker:and the seas are essentially like compassion. So self
Speaker:compassion. So people are like, what's self compassion? What is
Speaker:that like bubble bath? No. But no. But it's not actually self
Speaker:compassion, by definition is an unwavering attitude of kindness
Speaker:to yourself. So, when we when something goes wrong in our
Speaker:lives, and it always does, everyone has stuff that happens.
Speaker:What do we say to ourselves? Do we say it's all my fault? It's
Speaker:because of this, I should have done this better. I should have
Speaker:been stronger, faster, whatever. And, and what we end because of
Speaker:like a lot of media, we feel like we should be perfect,
Speaker:right? Like social media is giving us these filtered
Speaker:versions, right? Nobody looks nobody posts when, you know, bad
Speaker:crap happens. Like, like the car accident where my bumper fell
Speaker:off. Like, I'm not posting the app. Like, why would I post
Speaker:that? Right?
Speaker:Here's me with a flat tire.
Speaker:Yeah. But unfortunately, it
Speaker:feeds the myth that we all have perfect lives. And it's anything
Speaker:but the truth, right. And so you know, I think I think going back
Speaker:to all of that, like we have to a be aware that our lives will
Speaker:never be perfect. No one's is and be, be compassionate to
Speaker:ourselves. So I'm getting back to the C's. So the other C is
Speaker:really connection, and action and connection to like an inner
Speaker:group of people. So like five people in your life, maybe it's
Speaker:three people, maybe it's one person, whoever is your, you
Speaker:know, your person that you can go to when things go good, and
Speaker:things go bad. And they'll give you positive energy back, right.
Speaker:But then there's also wider community where everybody knows
Speaker:your name, like the cheers, song, right? Like, go to a place
Speaker:where everyone knows your name, and it makes you feel like
Speaker:you're part of something. So that could be anything. Is it a
Speaker:book club? Is it you know, your neighborhood, your neighborhood?
Speaker:Is it your church? Is that your temple? Like, what is it
Speaker:exactly? So those are the seeds that I think everyone should
Speaker:have in their lives? And this is, and the reason is, because
Speaker:adversity absolutely will happen to each and every one of us. And
Speaker:I don't know if you agree with that. But I firmly believe that
Speaker:I've never met a person who has not had some sort of adversity.
Speaker:Let me just
Speaker:recap real quick. So I like this sees we're talking about
Speaker:compassion, self compassion, connection, and community. Those
Speaker:are the ones that you've talked about. First. And yes, I do
Speaker:agree with that. Adversity is everywhere. I always like to
Speaker:talk about when we talk about stress, and I know we'll talk
Speaker:about this going forward. But I always laugh because people have
Speaker:vilified stress and adversity to a point of I'm like, Well hold
Speaker:on a sec. Gravity exist, and it's positive in our lives. And
Speaker:that's actually some stress on us. That's actually positive
Speaker:stress you stress right? Like, stress exists, it just is it's
Speaker:the way we manage the stress. Let's stop vilifying stress
Speaker:because it's necessary. And it exists.
Speaker:100%, I couldn't agree with you more. Right. And like, I think
Speaker:that trauma Research Institute has a great graph, right? I
Speaker:don't know if you've seen it. But it's like, it's almost like
Speaker:a heart rhythm, right? Like, you know, our hearts go up and down,
Speaker:our heart rates go up and down, right. But we have to be in this
Speaker:range of 60 to 100 beats per minute, right? So what we don't
Speaker:we want our heart rates to go up and down. In fact, heart rate
Speaker:variability means that we're more athletic. So the more we're
Speaker:able to do that, that same for resilience, right? Same for
Speaker:resilience. So we want to know, we want to be able to take that
Speaker:stress and go up, and then come back. And that's, you know,
Speaker:that's actually healthy emotionally, mentally, to be
Speaker:able to take those stressors and bring them back. What's wrong is
Speaker:if the stress is if you are constantly living up here, where
Speaker:you're in super stressed state constantly, that's like
Speaker:sympathetic overdrive, like fight or flight response
Speaker:constantly, right? So that's not good. Or if you're like, down
Speaker:here, you're cranky, irritable, and depressed, paralyze
Speaker:whatever. So you're right. I mean, some stress is good
Speaker:stress. We want our system to be stressed sometimes.
Speaker:Yeah. I wanted to answer your question. So one is Managing
Speaker:Stress. Please, everybody, get the book. Read it. Secondly, is
Speaker:you mentioned the term self compassion. And as a therapist,
Speaker:I've been doing treating a lot of families, families,
Speaker:adolescents, children, with what we call core shame. And I've
Speaker:noticed that when we talk about compassion, that sense of like,
Speaker:yes, self compassion is right. But it's fascinating to me how
Speaker:much that's a struggle when there's core shame,
Speaker:developmental trauma, whatever is caused that, that it really
Speaker:is a block. Like I'm not worth it. I I'm just I'm not I don't
Speaker:know what the self compassion is. It's my fault. I'm just
Speaker:unworthy. But I know you've run into people like that. What is
Speaker:your recommendation to when when you run into that shame?
Speaker:I think you're absolutely right, Rob. And you know, I was very
Speaker:fortunate to have stumbled upon this program a few years back
Speaker:when I was actually having some adversity in my life. It was
Speaker:called cognitive based compassion training, cognitive
Speaker:based compassion training. And it's a program out of Emory
Speaker:University, there's several universities that have it, you
Speaker:know, different iterations. Stanford has one too. And, you
Speaker:know, basically, it is the kind of where I learned about self
Speaker:compassion. And they do like when you go back to adverse
Speaker:events and childhood, absolutely right, though, that can be the
Speaker:root of a lot of like self bullying, or, you know, I'm not
Speaker:good enough and all of that. So I would say that that absolutely
Speaker:exists. However, the good thing is that we do have
Speaker:neuroplasticity in our brains, right? So I think that there is
Speaker:definitely a way to come out of that. And this, of course, is a
Speaker:really good one, I think it was very, very helpful for a lot of
Speaker:people. But there's other courses trauma Research
Speaker:Institute has it, there's all kinds of ways to actually come
Speaker:out of that. But one of the biggest things we have to do is,
Speaker:in my opinion, is to recognize that we are often in sympathetic
Speaker:overdrive, and that we constantly live in this like
Speaker:sympathetic stress, like the fight or flight response state.
Speaker:And when we do that, it is very, very hard. And please tell me
Speaker:how you think, with your background, to see clearly
Speaker:because your lens is blurred. So I'll give you a really good
Speaker:example. So I was stressed out and tired and fatigued. You
Speaker:know, I'd had a long, few weeks, a few years ago, and my boss
Speaker:sent me an email. And in the email, he said something and I
Speaker:looked at it, it was like, I don't know, five or six o'clock
Speaker:in the evening. And I'm like, Grr, he, I mean, what did he say
Speaker:this? Like, doesn't he understand that? This is
Speaker:whatever. And I was just like, ah, or maybe it's me, maybe it's
Speaker:me, I should have done a better job like, oh, there's this self
Speaker:chatter, right. The next morning, I woke up, and I had a
Speaker:really good night's sleep. Right? Again, another issue in
Speaker:the American culture, were not getting enough sleep. And my
Speaker:lens was clear. And so I opened up my laptop and I looked at the
Speaker:email again, I'm like, he didn't say anything bad. It was just
Speaker:stating a fact. And he gave me a solution. And there's just
Speaker:there's nothing there. So I was so thankful that I hadn't
Speaker:replied to that email Rob, like the evening before. But it just
Speaker:goes to show you that, like a lot of these things of like self
Speaker:unappreciation, self bullying, and all of that is a consequence
Speaker:of the fact that we're constantly in that stressed out
Speaker:state. So remember, we said, stress is good, but you have to
Speaker:be able to come down from it too. And if we're constantly in
Speaker:sympathetic overdrive, and we don't activate our other system,
Speaker:which is a parasympathetic system, that really causes havoc
Speaker:on our mental emotional health, but also on our body. Physical
Speaker:health, which is why we, we bonded so much on the holistic
Speaker:health, right? Like we're just causing damage everywhere. Like,
Speaker:why are we doing this?
Speaker:Well, I'm not always amazed. But I'm always wanting to highlight
Speaker:that. People in sympathetic, I always talk about, you know,
Speaker:literally, their lid is flipped, and they're in this sympathetic
Speaker:place. Many times they get that's a familiar place for them
Speaker:to be. And we're trying to do therapy. And I always like to
Speaker:ask, how is your eating been lately? Well, I'm surviving on a
Speaker:pack of Oreos, and a bag of Doritos. And my body's craving
Speaker:this instant sugar, these carbs. And we wonder why therapy is
Speaker:really hard. I mean, especially, I mean, you've seen it
Speaker:adolescents who don't have proper nutrition, and it's the
Speaker:snowball effect, right? Or sympathetic or hyperactive,
Speaker:we're in Go, go go. We want these instant fuels. And it's
Speaker:just, it's interesting. And I'm sure I'd love for you to speak
Speaker:to this. I call it the snowball the snowball effect, right?
Speaker:Totally. We don't even want to we don't even know how to come
Speaker:down from that. Right. First of all, you know, the first thing
Speaker:of any curing any kind of difficult state is to understand
Speaker:that you're in it. Right? Acceptance, right. So moving
Speaker:from denial to acceptance, or like, unclear to clear, okay,
Speaker:see myself that I'm in here. The second thing is to activate like
Speaker:solutions or interventions, right? So in order to actually
Speaker:step away from it, we need to actually do some work to be able
Speaker:to recognize it. But then let's just talk about the solutions
Speaker:for a second, right, we talked about the Cs so the skis are
Speaker:really important use its buffers right buffers to pull us out of
Speaker:that state. I do think deep breathing. That's been shown
Speaker:scientifically to have you know, box breathing or deep breathing.
Speaker:Meditation can certainly help but trauma research institute
Speaker:some really interesting methods to bring yourself out of that
Speaker:super sympathetic state also, like touching wood or metal and
Speaker:just focusing on it right. And that nationally stigma. Mental
Speaker:Health actually has the 54321 method, right? To bring you back
Speaker:to the present, to calm you down. So these are things that
Speaker:are really interesting and important. And I guess I would
Speaker:say to the, to our audience, or professional audience, you know,
Speaker:the self compassion also means that you kind of have to take
Speaker:care of yourself, in order to be the best deliverer of care. And
Speaker:that's why I took the course actually, because it was offered
Speaker:free to doctors and nurses, health care workers who have
Speaker:severe burnout right now. And then I liked it so much, I went
Speaker:back, and I did like a one and a half year training program. So I
Speaker:became a certified instructor of it. And it really changed my
Speaker:life, Rob, to get us out of that sympathetic overdrive. So we
Speaker:talked about connections to get us out, we talked about the
Speaker:trauma Resource Institute method, the community resiliency
Speaker:model to get us out the deep breathing, the meditation, or
Speaker:what they teach, which is a nurturing moment, to nurturing
Speaker:moment actually pulls, it's a visualization technique, where
Speaker:it basically takes you back to a time where you felt safe, and
Speaker:makes you kind of sit in that time to kind of bring you back
Speaker:into the state where you can actually listen, that you can
Speaker:actually listen and you can inhale, what you're being taught
Speaker:or talk to about. Does that make sense?
Speaker:Absolutely. And I think all of our professional people will
Speaker:certainly appreciate those resources. I liked that you
Speaker:talked about the breathing, I think many of us, even as
Speaker:professionals underestimate. Now I'll geek out with you a little
Speaker:bit if that's okay, that our deep breathe deep breathing is I
Speaker:love to say that the diaphragm is a way to actually be able to
Speaker:regulate our central nervous system. And that diaphragmatic
Speaker:breathing really controls our heart rate variability. And so
Speaker:the breathing is just is just phenomenal. A little plug for
Speaker:Andrew, Dr. Andrew Huberman. I know you and I, you and I had
Speaker:that. in common. He talks about the physiological sigh being an
Speaker:amazing way that two breaths in through the nose and one long
Speaker:exhale, just there's these techniques to really help be
Speaker:able to move you and those are connected. And I think your
Speaker:speaking does, being able to get that sense of personal
Speaker:regulation will help with the connection. And the community,
Speaker:as well. So they all go together,
Speaker:They all
Speaker:go together, and they were a part of our into, they are an
Speaker:integral part of the way communities have been, right.
Speaker:Because when we rest and we pause, we have an opportunity to
Speaker:do those things. Yeah.
Speaker:Well, let me jump back because all of this is taking place and
Speaker:you have such an amazing mind. Let me go back if I can, because
Speaker:I know there's some personal stuff in or mixed with, you get
Speaker:done with med school, there's a lot has happened maybe in its
Speaker:efficient way. Walk us through finishing med school, and then
Speaker:your career gets going if you don't mind would be Yeah,
Speaker:absolutely. So I finished at the Hospital for Sick Children with
Speaker:my residency. And at that point, again, going back to the career
Speaker:pivots, you know, I decided that I wanted to go to the United
Speaker:States. So it came from Canada, from Canada. And there's, you
Speaker:know, some even there's some specialized training in
Speaker:nutrition at UPenn. That seemed like a valuable opportunity. So
Speaker:I go there, I do that training. And then I you know, I ended up
Speaker:practicing pediatrics for a while actually teaching
Speaker:residents and I love teaching loved teaching. I think it's a
Speaker:it's probably from my family. My grandfather was a professor and
Speaker:so was my dad. And so it comes kind of through that probably,
Speaker:but so I taught the residents for a while. And then I moved to
Speaker:Atlanta, Georgia, and and started working in the emergency
Speaker:room urgent care centers of the Children's Healthcare of
Speaker:Atlanta, which is a really big hospital system here. And again,
Speaker:I think it goes back to the self confidence, the self efficacy
Speaker:because they wanted, when I first interviewed for that
Speaker:position, they said, Well, you can be one of the pediatricians
Speaker:here. And I said, No, I, I think I'm I'm well equipped to
Speaker:actually be the medical director for you. And, you know, I
Speaker:emailed her, the person who's interviewing me, and she's like,
Speaker:well, you know, you kind of yearn for that. And I was like,
Speaker:No, but look at my resume. I promise you give me a chance to
Speaker:persistence, persistence. Persistence was important. And
Speaker:then after she saw the resume, she interviewed me and she was
Speaker:like, Yeah, we're gonna hire you as a medical director at this
Speaker:urgent care center. We said 30,000 patient visits a year. It
Speaker:was very, very it was and this is important, because thank you
Speaker:for asking, but it is important to the story, I think, because
Speaker:after about seven years of that I was totally burnt out. It was
Speaker:it was really affecting me because we had long shifts and
Speaker:my kids started saying, you know why? Aren't you home for
Speaker:bedtime? Mom? Weren't you home for Christmas? Weren't you home
Speaker:for this? And that because I was working nights and weekends and
Speaker:all of that. And I just sat down one day and even before my kids
Speaker:came in, she was pregnant. It actually I had to had
Speaker:infertility issues. So finally I got pregnant, I was carrying
Speaker:twins, and I was working these long shifts. And I remember
Speaker:like, I wrote an article for Thrive about this. I sat down
Speaker:and the nurse brought a stool over and she's like, put your
Speaker:feet up. I was pregnant is so big. And she's like, What are
Speaker:you doing? Exactly? You know, like, is this good for your is
Speaker:this good for your kids? Like your babies? And unfortunately,
Speaker:it wasn't, they came premature. Yeah, and a lot of doctors
Speaker:unfortunate a lot of female doctors, because of the long
Speaker:training that ends up happening. But But anyways, you know that,
Speaker:you know, I was burnt out. And that's when I again, started
Speaker:looking. And, you know, found this amazing position at WebMD.
Speaker:So, so you think it's like, Oh, crap, I think adversity happens.
Speaker:But often it's that whole old theme, right? Like every cloud
Speaker:has a silver lining. Like, we can't be afraid to pivot. We
Speaker:can't be afraid to jump right. Sometimes there's something else
Speaker:behind the door. And the one thing that when I jumped to
Speaker:WebMD, somebody said to me that I'll never forget. And they
Speaker:said, you know, you will not know until you go through that
Speaker:door. What other doors exists beyond that?
Speaker:Yeah. Wow.
Speaker:Oh, yeah. Don't be fearful.
Speaker:Can I ask what was maybe a your biggest lesson learned or
Speaker:something unexpected that you took away from your ER time?
Speaker:Energy that?
Speaker:I? You know, that's such a great question. And I think it was
Speaker:such a good experience, like I look back at it don't look back
Speaker:at it negativity at all, it was very positive. And the way it
Speaker:was positive was that I got to really understand the health
Speaker:system. And the the challenges of the health system, especially
Speaker:for those who are, you know, don't have as much resources or
Speaker:access to care. So our population was 80%, Medicaid. It
Speaker:was 80% African American, it was in a poor area of town. And we
Speaker:had the sickest kids come in like sickest kids, sometimes we
Speaker:would have to helicopter them out. And you know, they were so
Speaker:sick. And I just felt like, like, it was really an
Speaker:interesting experience, because it really gave me so much
Speaker:understanding of what's going on. Right. And the resources
Speaker:that we lack of the system. The inequities that exist and how
Speaker:parents are, are everywhere are struggling. And now with the
Speaker:mental health work that I do, I see that it's on both sides,
Speaker:like it's on both sides, you have the lower socio economic
Speaker:groups that suffer because they might not have the access to,
Speaker:you know, financial resources or food on the table. One quarter
Speaker:of our kids are actually food insecure right now. And then you
Speaker:have the upper echelons who are also suffering for different
Speaker:reasons. It's just hard to be a parent all round. Yeah, it's
Speaker:hard to be a teen all round.
Speaker:All around. Yeah. So you have this significant experience
Speaker:managing this er, and then you make a jump to WebMD. I'm sure
Speaker:not only me, but everybody's fascinated. Tell me what WebMD
Speaker:is like, because you've heard this probably a billion times.
Speaker:My wife gets a hangnail, she gets on WebMD. And she's got a
Speaker:brain tumor, right? And then I'm like, stop, take it within
Speaker:context. So I'm just fascinated, like, please, yes, what was
Speaker:WebMD like, it's amazing. Oh,
Speaker:my God, I was at WebMD for about nine years, eight years. It was
Speaker:fabulous. And I'll tell you this, some of the smartest
Speaker:people I know, when I worked at WebMD. Truly, not just not just
Speaker:healthcare professionals, but journalists, Tech Tech people,
Speaker:like, you know, design, marketing, whatever, like it was
Speaker:a group of people, we launched a lot of great products. But the
Speaker:reason I liked them so much is because we all had the same
Speaker:Northstar. And that was like, help the patient, like, give
Speaker:them information to arm them, to arm them for their own health to
Speaker:be advocates for their own health. And it was wonderful. So
Speaker:I got a ton of experience. I can, like, so grateful for that
Speaker:experience, um, to get more experience and get, you know,
Speaker:grow in different directions that I never would have if I
Speaker:hadn't jumped actually, honestly about.
Speaker:Yeah, no, I believe that. So you know, it's stepping stones,
Speaker:you've got this. ER experience. Now you've got WebMD and the
Speaker:pieces are coming together, is now you get towards the end of
Speaker:your WebMD experience. Like are you is the book in your mind?
Speaker:What is next? I'm what's next at this end of the webinar.
Speaker:I would say it was probably 2016 2017. I was involved with a
Speaker:lot of public health initiatives with WebMD. We did a lot of
Speaker:partnerships with the CDC, the White House, this that and the
Speaker:other thing, right? And I started seeing the mental health
Speaker:crisis starting and that's what you people are like, Oh, the
Speaker:pandemic you know, had said yes, the pandemic did catalyze it,
Speaker:but it was absolutely there before seeing like just hearing
Speaker:Stories personally, of people who worked with me in the
Speaker:hospital or wherever else and the struggling as parents, you
Speaker:know, their, their kids cutting or, you know, became suicidal
Speaker:becoming addicted to substances, like just this all on and off,
Speaker:like what is going on. And then I started seeing the stress in
Speaker:my own kids. You know, I was a little bit tigerish, I'll be
Speaker:honest, my mom was a tiger mom. So like, I learned from her. And
Speaker:so I was trying to fish. And then I started seeing it, like
Speaker:my own kids having anxiety, and stress. And I was like, Oh, my
Speaker:God, like, this story, these stories need to be told, we need
Speaker:to come together as a society. So that's where the book kind of
Speaker:started. And then, you know, COVID happened. And during that
Speaker:period of time, unfortunately, I went through a divorce. And, and
Speaker:so while I was going through the divorce, I was struggling, of
Speaker:course, I was leaning on my people, my my inner circles, and
Speaker:the community, right? Because you gotta, I mean, when you go
Speaker:through adverse times, you have to have people like literally
Speaker:with a safety net. Yeah, right. And so that happened. And then
Speaker:the other thing that was really important that happened, for me
Speaker:to kind of explore our mental health a lot more with my nephew
Speaker:died. So my nephew, my sister's stepson, who is such a wonderful
Speaker:kid, just wonderful kid, he's a hockey player, just
Speaker:compassionate, warm, wonderful, unfortunately, has substance use
Speaker:disorder, and bipolar disorder. And, you know, my sister
Speaker:struggled for years to help him through rehabilitation, and all
Speaker:of that. And, and, you know, in 2018, he lost his life, to, to
Speaker:this and to the monster, as they call it, you know, and, and so
Speaker:that I just that really kind of catalyzed my journey I talked
Speaker:about in my book, and his name was Alec. And, and so all of
Speaker:those things kind of came together. And so I kind of
Speaker:follow that road. Yeah, yeah. And it's obviously such a need
Speaker:Rob, like, the work you guys are you and your organization is
Speaker:doing is just so important right now more important than ever?
Speaker:Well, I appreciate that. And I can't imagine what one is, I'm
Speaker:sure your sister was leaning on you for all kinds of input. I
Speaker:would imagine, like, what do we do? You're the expert, what do
Speaker:we do, and even with all of that high level expertise, it, it
Speaker:didn't prevent a tragedy from happening.
Speaker:That was the saddest part. And I think to this day, like she
Speaker:feels like she somehow didn't do enough, again, the self
Speaker:bullying, right. And I'm telling her, there's nothing else you
Speaker:could have done, right? It's hard. Man, parents of substance
Speaker:use disorder kids. I mean, they go through so much, so much.
Speaker:Yeah, it's so hard. And I think as, as a, as therapists, we
Speaker:might even underestimate how grief whether we're aware of the
Speaker:grief or it's hidden grief actually might really impact our
Speaker:ability and ability to have that stress tolerance to stay and
Speaker:maintain that window of tolerance. I can't imagine your
Speaker:sister just so grief that you know, you exist in that
Speaker:sympathetic place. And
Speaker:yeah, and this was her husband's firstborn son. I mean, it's just
Speaker:really, really hard. To his credit, he did actually go to
Speaker:experience the vipassana meditation for 10 days. Oh,
Speaker:which is a really hard one to do. Like, they take everything
Speaker:away, and you're basically on silence for some days. I don't
Speaker:think I could do it. Yeah, but he did it. I mean, Dan, good for
Speaker:you. And it really, really helped him with the grief. But
Speaker:you know, losing a child's losing a child so.
Speaker:So what So walk me through the time lapse and then you when do
Speaker:you complete your book, building happier kids?
Speaker:Published kid. So it started with the story that I was
Speaker:hearing and my own story with my own daughter, I finished I
Speaker:worked with the American Academy of Pediatrics, again, grateful
Speaker:to them for doing this with me, they published it, and they
Speaker:guided me through it that you know, they were obviously they
Speaker:have the on the pulse of what is important for kids and teens. So
Speaker:they, you know, kind of helped advise me on it. And it, we
Speaker:completed it at the end of 2021. No, at middle of 2021 got
Speaker:published in March of this year, and had a book signing at the
Speaker:American Academy of Pediatrics national conference like just a
Speaker:few weeks ago. So
Speaker:you're making such a difference. And again, the book is
Speaker:fantastic. I think it's important to take it all in
Speaker:maybe just speak a little bit about you know, I'm always
Speaker:concerned with not compartmentalizing health. I
Speaker:think that's an important I think you are too, like, let's
Speaker:look at this holistically. Maybe what is one thing that as
Speaker:therapist is professionals that we can do to improve our
Speaker:practice by looking at clients more holistically.
Speaker:Yeah, and I think you're so right about that, right like as
Speaker:as Doctor urs we often just deal with the issue in front of us.
Speaker:But we actually have to look holistically at the mental
Speaker:wellness. Similarly, when we deal with mental illness, I
Speaker:think it's also important to understand all the factors that
Speaker:are weighing in on that person's life. So for example, like just
Speaker:basic things like, do they have the seeds, for example? Right?
Speaker:Do they have the Cs? You know? Or do the parents have the Cs?
Speaker:Because those parents are like, similar to that email thing? If
Speaker:the parents constantly have a blurred filter? How what's
Speaker:happening in the home, right? What are the socio economic
Speaker:resources that might be impacting them, you know, what
Speaker:other disparities could be impacting them. And then I think
Speaker:the other sees like, the compassion, right, like
Speaker:compassion, we never have, we didn't have a chance to talk
Speaker:about this. But you know, just trying to be compassionate to
Speaker:the patients, to understand them to kind of get on their level,
Speaker:but they're just like you ultimately, that's why, on my
Speaker:website, I say mom first because I'm just like you, like, I'm
Speaker:just like every other parent like that's first and to
Speaker:understand that everyone has their own crosses that they're
Speaker:bearing. And to be kind, I think it's really important. But
Speaker:lastly, sorry, since you asked me, my advice to them, is also
Speaker:self care, like self compassion, and self care means filling your
Speaker:own cup, because you can't pour for others, unless you know,
Speaker:your cup is full. And that, that starts with kindness to
Speaker:yourself. But also giving yourself space to, to, to kind
Speaker:of replenish yourself is so important,
Speaker:when I really appreciate this, looking at it as the kindness
Speaker:piece, the community, the connection, seeing those things,
Speaker:because so often we think of self care is I need a longer
Speaker:vacation, I need something to distract me from what's
Speaker:happening in just knowing you have to come back to the same
Speaker:environment. It's just it seems to perpetuate this cycle of
Speaker:actually, that type of self care is not fulfilling your well.
Speaker:I totally agree with you. Right? Because, you know, I went to a
Speaker:talk with Dan Harris. One day, he wrote that book 10% happier.
Speaker:And he was an ABC anchor. I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker:But he had a panic attack on air, right? And that's what made
Speaker:him kind of stop and do things. And so he said in his lecture
Speaker:was so interesting. It's like, how many vacations can you go
Speaker:on? How many five star hotels? How many? Four star hotels? How
Speaker:many three star hotels? Are you gonna stay at how many beaches,
Speaker:the happiness is actually inside you? Like, wherever you go, you
Speaker:take it with you. So if you're not feeling it here, it doesn't
Speaker:matter if you're in Bali, it doesn't, right, like it kind of
Speaker:has to be here. And that's how we get to that is actually being
Speaker:kind to ourselves kind to others and having those circles around
Speaker:us to catch us I think right?
Speaker:Yeah. Wonderful. And I really appreciate your perspective.
Speaker:Yeah. As a psychotherapist, I do want to ask you this question,
Speaker:because it's always, we love working with psychiatrists love
Speaker:hearing from the pediatricians. And you're bridging this gap.
Speaker:What do you see as being really effective? When it comes to
Speaker:psychotherapy, when you refer clients? Or what is it? What do
Speaker:you see as valuable when it comes to psychotherapy?
Speaker:Look, psychotherapy is so essential, so important. And I
Speaker:think, you know, I would say the most effective things as a pet,
Speaker:like being on the outside as a pediatrician, is really like
Speaker:holding hands with the parents and the pediatricians and the
Speaker:providers like, we are all in it together. And we want to, you
Speaker:know, make that circle around the child or teen. So kind of
Speaker:communication, being really, really important, not just with
Speaker:the kids, not just with the families, but even any other
Speaker:doctors or experts that are involved is is very, very
Speaker:important. So that's one thing. And secondly, like if there's
Speaker:any way like, again, I know I'm plugging this self compassion
Speaker:thing, but get make sure you're mentally and emotionally well
Speaker:yourself, because that will enable your glass your lens to
Speaker:be clearer. And for you to be more compassionate seeing it and
Speaker:be able to have the side understand the side of the
Speaker:family even better than you are like, obviously, you guys are
Speaker:right, because that's what you do. But I'm just saying even to
Speaker:clear it even more. That can help. There was a great article
Speaker:in The Atlantic. I don't know if you saw it, but it was basically
Speaker:power something to the effect of power injures the brain. It was
Speaker:excellent. You know why? Because it talked about how like as
Speaker:people climb the ladder as professionals or as politicians
Speaker:as CEOs, whatever, there's parts of the brain that actually
Speaker:shrink. There's parts of the brain that get grow and you and
Speaker:I know, neuroplasticity of the brain. So when the amygdala
Speaker:grows, because we're not taking care of ourselves, we have
Speaker:burnout, like whatever it is, then you lose your ability to
Speaker:see broadly and to see other people's point of view. So the
Speaker:whole argument about that article was that it there's
Speaker:there is damage that happens if you can't see broadly.
Speaker:Ultimately, it Facts, your profession and your capability
Speaker:of doing what you want to do. So, I think that's really
Speaker:important to make sure that our lens is clear.
Speaker:So the self compassion piece, we could really have some more
Speaker:clarity around what that looks like having the psychotherapist
Speaker:we always like to use the term we have to do with the parents
Speaker:as we want them to do with their children. The the adolescence
Speaker:because oftentimes there, you know, we as therapists can even
Speaker:be boiled and expectation like the parents are like, well just
Speaker:make them better or do this and or their parents, they should
Speaker:know better, right? Like, oh, I tend to cringe because then we
Speaker:lose our compassion for the parents and their narrative and
Speaker:their story, their attachment history and their ability to
Speaker:maybe they have unrealistic or inaccurate expectations or
Speaker:unresolved grief or whatever that is. So working, I'm hearing
Speaker:you say, Help help the parents get into that place of self
Speaker:compassion, but it is I would use the term experiential, that
Speaker:we as psychotherapist can help facilitate that self compassion,
Speaker:because oftentimes, as parents were boiled in it, we can't see
Speaker:the forest through the trees, right.
Speaker:So hard and like the patients I've dealt with, which are like,
Speaker:and you know, pediatricians and physicians often have what we
Speaker:might call challenging patients, you know, not really listening,
Speaker:they have their own seeming, their seeming agenda or whatever
Speaker:to penetrate down is just to literally get to their level,
Speaker:right? And say, Hey, I'm just like you. I'm a parent. I like
Speaker:and that was the most effective for me, like when I actually was
Speaker:able to really communicate with them, either I, you know, and
Speaker:say, I want to do for your child or teen what I would want from
Speaker:my own child and teen. You know, and and that's when they really
Speaker:listen to actually, that's when they listened, right? So I think
Speaker:for us to be able to put ourselves into the parents
Speaker:shoes, enables us to communicate more effectively to them, don't
Speaker:you think?
Speaker:Empathy, empathy, empathy? Yes. So if I can just catch me up to
Speaker:catch me up to today? I mean, how are things with your kids?
Speaker:How are things with your life? I'm just, you know, because we
Speaker:say it's integrated. Right? Your story is part of your expertise.
Speaker:Yeah. And Rob, like, you want the truth?
Speaker:I do want to choose because I believe that adversity and
Speaker:growth is part of of our story.
Speaker:And adversity. Growth totally is and so look, it's it's, you
Speaker:know, it's not easy being a parent, and it's not, you know,
Speaker:I have two kids that are absolutely different. I have to
Speaker:honor their differences, right on are the differences tweak my
Speaker:communication style, according to their differences, right.
Speaker:It's a constant tweaking of communication style, and you
Speaker:have teens as well, like, when they were 11, how do we talk to
Speaker:them? When they were 13? How do we talk to them? When they're
Speaker:16? How do we talk to them, right, and it's constantly like
Speaker:resetting everything, right? And then resetting according to to
Speaker:the kid. But I do think that as a parent myself, what I've
Speaker:learned is, my North store is keeping that as communication
Speaker:lines open. Because if I lose that communication and trust
Speaker:with them, they're not going to come to me if there's a crisis,
Speaker:they're not gonna come to me if things go bad, they're not gonna
Speaker:come to me if things go good, but they might not. But they
Speaker:won't come to me when there's a crisis. And that's why
Speaker:communication is like one of the C's, the C, we're going back to
Speaker:the three C's, it's actually five C's, the fourth C is
Speaker:actually communication. That's the big C. And then the fifth
Speaker:thing is calm, calm, finding calm.
Speaker:Can I ask really quickly, what are the couple of factors that
Speaker:are the biggest blockers to that communication with the kids? Be
Speaker:it your own kids or parents, I would think there's a few things
Speaker:that come up that are like, ooh, this will hinder your
Speaker:communication.
Speaker:check your ego at the door. I think that's true of every
Speaker:thing. Right? It really is. Really, because, you know,
Speaker:authoritarianism, I don't think really works. You know, I think
Speaker:that I really try hard to bring them back to the family values.
Speaker:And sometimes it's the chat that hey, you know, I don't really
Speaker:care what other people are doing. This is what's happening
Speaker:in our home. And these are the reasons why like, you gotta give
Speaker:them reasons why. Right? And, you know, I think sometimes you
Speaker:just have to check yourself at the door. Like to walk in
Speaker:bringing your job with you. Right? Okay, this is my, I'm
Speaker:putting my parent hat on and taking the moment to have find
Speaker:that calm. The calm is so important as a parent. I think
Speaker:it's so important like because then that'll stop you like
Speaker:taking a breath before you react. Really important, right?
Speaker:Viktor Frankl? I think we talked about this.
Speaker:Yeah, man. Yeah, right. And it's
Speaker:really like an event happens. And there's a reaction but the
Speaker:space between the event and the reaction if you can just like a
Speaker:be able to control that, like, whatever, there is a deep breath
Speaker:or just looking the other way for a second while you compose
Speaker:yourself or just saying, hey, you know what, I need a few
Speaker:minutes. I will talk to you a few minutes. I will talk to you
Speaker:tomorrow morning about this, because I'm not at my best
Speaker:moment right now. Whatever it is, we got to do it. Right. And
Speaker:again, I know I keep going back to self care. But that's why
Speaker:self care is important. Because it kind of keeps your lens
Speaker:clean.
Speaker:Well, and all those things actually reduce defensiveness. I
Speaker:mean, we all know that adolescence, but most people are
Speaker:pretty easily triggered into defensiveness and as well as us.
Speaker:And then we lose the safety and the compassion and the ability
Speaker:to be open and all lost. And there's techniques, I loved what
Speaker:you're giving us. These are techniques to reduce your own,
Speaker:calm yourself, reduce your own defensiveness and not triggered
Speaker:the defensiveness and others really tremendous. So okay, so
Speaker:I've got some really questions, the big ones I'd love to ask,
Speaker:what part of your story is untold? is still untold?
Speaker:Yeah, I knew that was gonna come my way.
Speaker:you knew
Speaker:it was coming? Well, I gotta ask it. I gotta ask it. It's the big
Speaker:one for me.
Speaker:I mean, I think the story, the problem is really that's untold
Speaker:is I do want to make a difference. I want to help
Speaker:people. You know, I, I want to continue on that journey. The
Speaker:question is, where in the health sphere? Can I really make most
Speaker:impacted by health? I mean, holistic health, not mental
Speaker:health, not physical health, but the two are very tied together.
Speaker:So how can I really do that? Because that is like what I
Speaker:really would like to do. And that's really a historic part.
Speaker:That's I'm told, I think I'm making a difference. I want to
Speaker:make a bigger difference. And you know, what does that what
Speaker:does that look like? If it? Is it? Like this 360 degrees of
Speaker:health? Like, is it looking at different ways to deliver
Speaker:therapy for mental well being? Is it prevention? Is it public
Speaker:health? You know, what is it exactly? And then the other
Speaker:story that I'm told, of course, that's a huge part of me is, you
Speaker:know, the parenting story. I mean, we all want to be
Speaker:successful parents. So what is successful parenting, it's to
Speaker:me, it's not about getting into, oh, the first year of college or
Speaker:the big fat job, it's really about fun, helping my kids find
Speaker:happiness and contentment. I love
Speaker:it. Love it, what what legacy will you leave?
Speaker:I think there's a couple of things that I feel like we're
Speaker:missing as a society. And that is honestly hoping to bring
Speaker:people back to fundamentals. Fundamentals being just, you
Speaker:know, you know, just the importance of how the importance
Speaker:of community. I'm hoping I can make a difference there. And
Speaker:also Rob, the importance of preventative health, talking a
Speaker:lot about chronic diseases, and, you know, issues around mental
Speaker:health and all of that, but I really believe that we should
Speaker:start upstream to you should really have that conversation.
Speaker:So I would say to a psychotherapist, that might be
Speaker:listening, is there something you can do to kind of teach
Speaker:resilience and resilience is an overused word, maybe the word is
Speaker:emotional, mental fortitude, to understand to let people
Speaker:understand, that are left to understand that, you know,
Speaker:sadness, and happiness is part of everyone's life. Sometimes it
Speaker:converts into a disease or an illness. But often often, it's
Speaker:like that resiliency model, right? So talking more about
Speaker:prevention, and how we can do that. And I do think the three
Speaker:C's are part of that. I do think as you and I talked about what,
Speaker:you know, the Huberman labs talk about like, sunlight is part of
Speaker:that nature is part of that exercise. Part of that sleep is
Speaker:part of that, right? Like there's physical attributes that
Speaker:are part of that, too. So there's a lot of pieces to that
Speaker:pie, but I really do think we need to come up with upstream
Speaker:solutions. Also.
Speaker:I said it was probably my last question, but I lied. That's not
Speaker:my last question. So being a medical doctor, you know,
Speaker:medication is just on the rise, like, no others these days,
Speaker:maybe just take a moment. What's your view on medication with
Speaker:this whole relationship with stress management and adversity
Speaker:and functionality, and
Speaker:I view it as one piece of the pie. There's a 360 degree pie.
Speaker:Some of its prevention, obviously, psychotherapy, maybe
Speaker:it's even psilocybin. Right? Maybe it's, you know, other
Speaker:alternative forms meditation. There's so much there, right?
Speaker:And I think medication is in its place, but it's not all of it.
Speaker:Like we can't just go to the RX. We can't. We just can't and I
Speaker:think one of the things That is really something a challenge
Speaker:that we all need to work on is we need to have like a three or
Speaker:four prong solution. It can't be a one point solution. Most
Speaker:people need multiple prongs.
Speaker:It seems like our society is looking for the hack on
Speaker:everything.
Speaker:Yeah, like the magic pill, literally, right? And
Speaker:I always laugh because I have to say to parents in a very
Speaker:compassionate way, there's no pill for shame. They haven't
Speaker:developed that one. We have to work through it. We've got to do
Speaker:it. We've got to look at it holistically. And how do we
Speaker:rob like, how do we kind of shift the culture, shift the
Speaker:culture to actually understand that there is no magic pill, you
Speaker:got to work through it, adversity happens, you got to
Speaker:let it go. Like, you know, let's be a team, let's be community
Speaker:like the we not the me.
Speaker:I think this is a perfect way. And I thank you for so much
Speaker:joining me and telling your story and your own
Speaker:vulnerability. I mean, you're a living model of what it really
Speaker:takes to look at connection. I mean, the all of those who have
Speaker:who have had the privilege of listening are drawn into the
Speaker:story and relating it to our own lives. We all face adversity.
Speaker:And if it's real, yeah, the struggle is real, but it's an
Speaker:inevitable inevitable part of our existence and not be
Speaker:overwhelmed by it.
Speaker:upside is every time there's a struggle you grow from it,
Speaker:right? Yeah, like you build that muscle. Right? You go to the
Speaker:gym, and it hurts the day after but guess what? You're building
Speaker:those muscles.
Speaker:It sounds cliche, but I always push Carol Dweck growth mindset
Speaker:pick up the book. It's a really great, simple read. Yeah, really
Speaker:fantastic. Well, I can't thank you enough for joining us and
Speaker:being a part of this. You've joined our community. We're a
Speaker:part of yours. I think this is a great step in making the
Speaker:movement. Yeah. Thank you so so much for your time, Dr.
Speaker:Bhargava.
Speaker:Rob, it's such an honor to be with you guys. And thank you so
Speaker:much for inviting me in such a great conversation. I really
Speaker:hope to work together with you more on all these wonderful
Speaker:things.
Speaker:Yes, we will. Well, thank you everybody for joining us. This
Speaker:has been Sessions please look for us and listen to wherever