The Healing Journey: Adoption

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In this episode, Kevin shares his personal adoption story. He and Rob discuss the challenges he faced growing up as an adoptee. Kevin also dives into his journey of self-discovery and healing, his search for his biological family, and the relationships he’s forged with them. Kevin emphasizes the importance of finding one’s identity and being known, and offers hope and encouragement to other adoptees and parents of adoptive children.

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Transcript
Rob Gent:

Welcome, everybody to Roadmap to Joy. I'm just so

Rob Gent:

pleased that we've got a special hour we get to spend, together

Rob Gent:

with Kevin Warren is with us and early on my career, and we

Rob Gent:

started way back when in 2007, started treating a wonderful

Rob Gent:

population of kids that actually had adoption. And I like to call

Rob Gent:

it relinquishment histories. And so Kevin, let him introduce

Rob Gent:

himself. But we're gonna get to take an amazing journey today

Rob Gent:

and share some of your story. So Kevin, maybe introduce yourself.

Rob Gent:

And yeah,

Kevin Warren:

I'm super excited to be on the podcast and have

Kevin Warren:

this opportunity to share my story. Very passionate about

Kevin Warren:

adoption. And yeah, excited to share. I currently work at

Kevin Warren:

Embark, one of the things that drew me to Embark was actually

Kevin Warren:

the past experience that you guys have had trading adoption

Kevin Warren:

back at kalo. And so I'm really excited to be here. And I think

Kevin Warren:

we're going to have a lot of good things to talk about. Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

I'm

Rob Gent:

excited, Kevin, because I know we were we worked

Rob Gent:

together for a while. And then until we heard somebody else's

Rob Gent:

story, who would I'd work with for a while. And then you had

Rob Gent:

said, Rob, I'm actually adopted. And we had worked together for a

Rob Gent:

little while. I was like, Oh, my gosh, yeah. Wonderful. Totally.

Rob Gent:

Let's talk about this. And yeah, so we've gotten to share a lot

Rob Gent:

about that. And so if you wouldn't mind, I just, you were

Rob Gent:

willing and actually eager to be able to share and what are some

Rob Gent:

of your hopes and goals for this time? Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

for the listener? For sure. Before today, I was

Kevin Warren:

trying to think like, what are some things if as I was a kid,

Kevin Warren:

or even if I were a parent, what are some things that I would

Kevin Warren:

really feel like I wouldn't want to, to hear from somebody who's

Kevin Warren:

been adopted, and then also from an expert in the field. And so I

Kevin Warren:

love for, for adoptees to feel heard understood and and that

Kevin Warren:

they would feel like not alone. And then I also like for the

Kevin Warren:

population of parents who are adoptive parents, or even

Kevin Warren:

thinking of being parents who adopt, for them to know kind of

Kevin Warren:

what it's like for adoptive kids to go through. And just to hear

Kevin Warren:

firsthand experience, I feel like that's really important for

Kevin Warren:

parents to understand, like, what somebody's gone through and

Kevin Warren:

what somebody has experienced. And for me, it's been a very

Kevin Warren:

hard but also very beautiful journey. So I really just hope

Kevin Warren:

that that's what people get out of it.

Rob Gent:

Of that, Kevin. So well, if you don't mind, let's

Rob Gent:

call him in. So if you wouldn't mind starting at the beginning

Rob Gent:

and share a little bit of your story, for sure. So

Kevin Warren:

I was adopted at almost two years old. I was born

Kevin Warren:

in Salem, Oregon, and my biological mother, I'll all

Kevin Warren:

refer to them as biological parents, and my mom and dad as

Kevin Warren:

my adoptive parents. So my biological parents, I believe

Kevin Warren:

that it was more of a just a one night stand type of situation.

Kevin Warren:

So they didn't have a relationship. Now, now I know.

Kevin Warren:

And so I was, I was born in a hospital after my biological

Kevin Warren:

mother got out of prison to give birth to me. And so she was in

Kevin Warren:

prison during my pregnancy during her pregnancy with me,

Kevin Warren:

and was struggling through a lot of substance use and during that

Kevin Warren:

time, prior to being in prison, and so I'm thankful because she

Kevin Warren:

was not able to be on drugs while she was pregnant with me.

Kevin Warren:

So that's actually like a beautiful thing. And,

Kevin Warren:

unfortunately, not something that that all adoptees have the

Kevin Warren:

privilege of experiencing. But

Rob Gent:

but being incarcerated probably kept right over and

Rob Gent:

yeah, you as an infant. Yep. The fetus in a healthy way.

Kevin Warren:

Totally. So I'm very thankful for that. Yeah.

Kevin Warren:

And so I was living after I was born. I guess there was a whole

Kevin Warren:

like thing with her bringing a couple of people that she

Kevin Warren:

thought might have been the biological father to the

Kevin Warren:

hospital to see me. And there was, I guess, a couple of

Kevin Warren:

confusions of, oh, you might be the father, I actually, I don't

Kevin Warren:

think you are the father. It must be that this other person

Kevin Warren:

and we'll get into that later, but they had multiple people and

Kevin Warren:

no shame to her at all. She's actually like, I'll get into

Kevin Warren:

this but she's had a beautiful redemption story of just like,

Kevin Warren:

just wholeness and just she's been sober for so long and as an

Kevin Warren:

incredible person, but at that time, she was going through a

Kevin Warren:

lot of struggles. And, and so, yeah, I ended up living with a

Kevin Warren:

relative of hers. I was physically abused and both of my

Kevin Warren:

legs were broken. When I was in that place and I don't know who

Kevin Warren:

it is. And I'm not sure if she does. But I was put into a

Kevin Warren:

hospital around the age of a year and a half into a hospital

Kevin Warren:

that specializes in abused infants. And they found that

Kevin Warren:

both my legs were broken, and that it probably was not an

Kevin Warren:

accident. Of course, I don't remember any of that. But you

Kevin Warren:

know, I'm sure it's affected something somehow. And so I

Kevin Warren:

actually didn't know that until I started searching for my

Kevin Warren:

biological mother and father through medical records. And I

Kevin Warren:

saw that, and it was pretty crazy to see. But anyways, and

Kevin Warren:

so after that point was when they put me up for adoption. And

Kevin Warren:

it was a closed adoption. And so my parents, my mom and dad, my

Kevin Warren:

adoptive parents did not know my biological mother, or father,

Kevin Warren:

when they adopted me. They were living in Oregon at the time. So

Kevin Warren:

I lived in Salem for probably about a year after I was

Kevin Warren:

adopted. And then my adoptive parents and I moved to

Kevin Warren:

Sacramento, California, they adopted about probably five, six

Kevin Warren:

years later, they adopted two separate siblings not related to

Kevin Warren:

me, but related to each other from a foster home. And we only

Kevin Warren:

actually were able to keep and fully legally adopt the sister

Kevin Warren:

of the two, because the brother was physically abusive to my

Kevin Warren:

sister who's not biologically biologically related, but I grew

Kevin Warren:

up with. And before the adoption was final, the adoption agency

Kevin Warren:

actually suggested that we put him in a home that is better fit

Kevin Warren:

for his needs. And I'm not sure exactly what those were. But I

Kevin Warren:

found out he went into the military, and he's living a

Kevin Warren:

enjoyable life. So that's good. But yeah, let me go back. Kevin,

Kevin Warren:

yep. Yep. I know, there's

Rob Gent:

a lot so much wonderful information. So was

Rob Gent:

your biological mother at the time? I know, now that you look

Rob Gent:

back, was she prepared to give you up for adoption? Or you just

Rob Gent:

win to the family temporarily? Or for sure? No, no,

Kevin Warren:

that's a good question. So well, I've gotten

Kevin Warren:

in touch with them. And so from what I know, is she I don't

Kevin Warren:

think she wanted to give me up for adoption. And I think that I

Kevin Warren:

was put in with her friend or family member temporarily in

Kevin Warren:

hopes that I would be reunited with her after she was out of

Kevin Warren:

prison.

Rob Gent:

And then, so walk us through. So yeah, how did you go

Rob Gent:

from those people? And did? Did you go into social services? Or

Rob Gent:

how were you? Adopted? Yes,

Kevin Warren:

yes. So I was actually put with, with a

Kevin Warren:

grandfather and a grandmother who actually specializes in

Kevin Warren:

like, being like the host, the family host for, like toddlers

Kevin Warren:

and infants that are going to be adopted. And so they I'm not

Kevin Warren:

sure exactly what the name of it is. But they, it's what they did

Kevin Warren:

for like, their life is they just like, had babies and like,

Kevin Warren:

kept them at their home until until the adoption service,

Kevin Warren:

found a family for them. So I was with those individuals for,

Kevin Warren:

I think, probably close to a year, maybe I'm not sure. But I

Kevin Warren:

know when when I was injured. I was really, really young. And I

Kevin Warren:

was adopted at two. So it must have probably been a year

Rob Gent:

was was finding out about the injury. Was that the

Rob Gent:

the triggering mechanism to have you go to these people? Oh,

Kevin Warren:

yes, it was. So when the hospital like when I

Kevin Warren:

was taken to the hospital, I'm pretty sure what happened is the

Kevin Warren:

hospital called and reported it. And that's why it then became a

Kevin Warren:

very closed off adoption. My biological mother was not able

Kevin Warren:

to get in touch with me. And all of that it just completely.

Kevin Warren:

Yeah.

Rob Gent:

As well as from the people who had you correct?

Rob Gent:

Right. Yeah. So even infant Kevin has experienced a

Rob Gent:

tremendous amount of trauma. Yeah. At that point. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Gent:

So you go live with these people? And then you're in the

Rob Gent:

system available for adoption. Then your parents, right. Find

Rob Gent:

you. Yep. And there and how it was there any special way that

Rob Gent:

they found you other than living in the same state or?

Kevin Warren:

I don't know, I know that they, my my mom was

Kevin Warren:

not able to have kids and, or my dad, we're not sure but they

Kevin Warren:

tried. tried for a long time and, and so they basically just

Kevin Warren:

decided they wanted to adopt and told the adoption agency. We

Kevin Warren:

are, you know, open for anyone, like we just we just want a

Kevin Warren:

child And I happened to be that child, my family, I actually was

Kevin Warren:

given to my parents on my dad's birthday. So it's kind of a

Kevin Warren:

random fun. But yeah, they they just wanted to adopt. And so

Kevin Warren:

then they got a call one day and said, we have a baby boy who's

Kevin Warren:

looking for who needs a home. And so there you go,

Rob Gent:

and remind me how old you were the day of your

Rob Gent:

adoption. The day of my adoption, I was around to around

Rob Gent:

two. Yeah. So two years is quite a bit of time to be. Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

I guess. So. Yeah. I've never really thought of it

Kevin Warren:

that way to be honest, because I've been like, Oh, two so

Kevin Warren:

young, like, nobody remembers anything from two. But, you

Kevin Warren:

know, going through the therapy, and the, you know, even just

Kevin Warren:

reading up on things and hearing other people's story, like,

Kevin Warren:

there's a lot, there's a lot packed into those two years that

Kevin Warren:

can affect the rest of your life. And, you know, journey of

Kevin Warren:

healing is a is a lifelong thing. So yeah, it's so

Rob Gent:

significant. So I love that we're talking about this.

Rob Gent:

And you two people do feel like, Oh, it was only to where I go so

Rob Gent:

quick. But yeah, those two years are so formative, this is why

Rob Gent:

I'm just sort of amazed they'd go into broken legs. And you can

Rob Gent:

imagine, I don't know that you're getting the most

Rob Gent:

nurturing care of when you're with those people experiencing

Rob Gent:

that. So even Little Kevin is starting off in the world. And

Rob Gent:

then that these people adopt you. Right, your parents, and

Rob Gent:

then so catches up. So you they adopt more children. So you have

Rob Gent:

siblings correct. And then so tell me about your siblings

Rob Gent:

again.

Kevin Warren:

Yeah. So it ended up just being one that I grew up

Kevin Warren:

with. And so my sister, we, yeah, they adopted her and her

Kevin Warren:

biological brother, unrelated to me, but, and that's when he hurt

Kevin Warren:

my sister multiple times. And so the adoption service suggested

Kevin Warren:

that he go back into foster care for a little while. And so I

Kevin Warren:

grew up with my sister, what was the age difference? Oh, four

Kevin Warren:

years? So she's 2425. I was I can't remember exactly how old I

Kevin Warren:

was when we adopted her. But I think she was close to three. So

Kevin Warren:

I must have been seven.

Rob Gent:

So you'd been five years approximately? Yeah, yeah.

Rob Gent:

With them.

Kevin Warren:

Without it. I will say I remember vividly a moment

Kevin Warren:

of a little bit of fear of like, what's it going to be like to

Kevin Warren:

have a sibling, because I've had this experience of being the

Kevin Warren:

only child for some, you know, five years or whatever, and

Kevin Warren:

developing this relationship. And then all of a sudden,

Kevin Warren:

there's these two siblings that come into the picture that I've

Kevin Warren:

never met that I never know that I never had that moment of like

Kevin Warren:

holding as a baby being that big baby brother, we now are that

Kevin Warren:

brother that providing right? It was a very weird experience.

Kevin Warren:

Quick little side note on that I remember, us going to pick them

Kevin Warren:

up from from the house that they were at. And we literally had a

Kevin Warren:

minivan, and we drive up to the home. And I remember seeing this

Kevin Warren:

woman walk out in tears. And my parents go in and greet her. And

Kevin Warren:

they walk out with my sister and would have been my brother. And

Kevin Warren:

they get in the car with us. And I'm sitting in the middle seats,

Kevin Warren:

and my sister gets put in the little seat next to me. And

Kevin Warren:

there were those little it was like a Honda Odyssey or

Kevin Warren:

whatever. So the seats are separated. And she's got a a car

Kevin Warren:

seat and my who would have been my brother was in the back. And

Kevin Warren:

I just remember the whole way the whole drive, he would just

Kevin Warren:

like, like call me like, Hey, you, hey, you who are you? Like,

Kevin Warren:

why? Why are you here? And it was a really weird, really weird

Kevin Warren:

experience. You know, honestly, it really was the whole ride. He

Kevin Warren:

just wanted to know, like, what, why we were doing this. And so

Kevin Warren:

it was just like, wow, like as like, and I wanted to be like a

Kevin Warren:

brother, but I'm only seven. And I'm like, What do I even do? So

Kevin Warren:

it's a no, it's just a very odd experience. I will say. So

Rob Gent:

how long was the brother with you before they

Rob Gent:

sent him? It wasn't probably not even a year. Oh, not even a

Rob Gent:

year. So it was the three of you and then it goes to the two of

Rob Gent:

you. Correct? And what is that relationship with like with your

Rob Gent:

sister if I can my sister?

Kevin Warren:

Yeah, it was always very tough. Well, first

Kevin Warren:

and foremost, her biological mother was on drugs when she was

Kevin Warren:

pregnant with her. So she had some more extensive mental

Kevin Warren:

struggles. And mine were anxiety and depression and isolation and

Kevin Warren:

hers were anger suicidal ideation. And she was diagnosed

Kevin Warren:

with borderline personality disorder, and and had a few

Kevin Warren:

moments of schizophrenic episodes as well. And so now it

Kevin Warren:

was, as you can imagine, very hard for my parents, but also

Kevin Warren:

very hard to navigate as a brother, because again, I wanted

Kevin Warren:

to be like that supportive brother and also wanted to have

Kevin Warren:

that relationship. And I will honestly say to this day, it's

Kevin Warren:

it's been hard because I look back and I think like, wow, I

Kevin Warren:

really wish that I had that, that, that from birth to growing

Kevin Warren:

up experience, I will say, we don't have the closest

Kevin Warren:

relationship. But I, I really am just hoping and praying that

Kevin Warren:

that changes, obviously, because I love her a lot. But growing up

Kevin Warren:

it was it was a fairly close relationship. But she did end up

Kevin Warren:

just basically saying, I don't want to be a part of this family

Kevin Warren:

and leaving. And so she got put into a a rehabilitation center

Kevin Warren:

that treated specialized in DBT. And that was in Houston, Texas.

Kevin Warren:

And she was 17 at the time. And she did not voluntarily go, my

Kevin Warren:

parents had some I can't remember the name brands or

Kevin Warren:

transporters come and take her. And so and my parents visited

Kevin Warren:

her every month. And it was very uncommon for parents to do that.

Kevin Warren:

And she had a lot of good breakthrough and stuff there.

Kevin Warren:

But then unfortunately, when she came back home, did not follow

Kevin Warren:

pretty much anything that she learned and really started

Kevin Warren:

getting into some dangerous stuff again, and ultimately

Kevin Warren:

decided, like, well, I don't want to do these things that

Kevin Warren:

you're asking me to do fairly normal things and decided to

Kevin Warren:

leave. And so I think that was hard for my parents. And in some

Kevin Warren:

ways it was a catch 22 For me, because it was hard. But I was

Kevin Warren:

also at this point, I was probably 21. And I was like

Kevin Warren:

well, I mean, if this is going to be better for you then. I

Kevin Warren:

mean, that's what needs to happen. Because, you know, I

Kevin Warren:

can't have you pulling knives on my parents and stuff. So,

Rob Gent:

so things were really dangerous. Yeah. Well, you

Rob Gent:

mentioned I can only imagine how stressful that was on you. Yeah,

Rob Gent:

but you talked about your parents, maybe if you don't mind

Rob Gent:

describing your experience with your parents, and, you know,

Rob Gent:

from where they nurturing and loving. Yeah, what was that like

Rob Gent:

for you? Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

yeah, no, they were they were very nurturing

Kevin Warren:

and loving. My sister really did rock their world a little bit,

Kevin Warren:

and my my mom coped with I'd say, probably an eating

Kevin Warren:

disorder, possibly, and really, just completely secluding

Kevin Warren:

herself from the family. And my dad became a workaholic, I would

Kevin Warren:

say he probably would acknowledge that even today. And

Kevin Warren:

I mean, again, my mom and dad now, probably the last three

Kevin Warren:

years have had an incredible healing experience and, and are

Kevin Warren:

doing so much better. And I mean, really, I give so much

Kevin Warren:

love and support my parents, because they did everything that

Kevin Warren:

they could, and they genuinely are awesome parents. But I mean,

Kevin Warren:

there, it was a very dark time. And I think that that my family

Kevin Warren:

looking back, we we turned away from community, and it was

Kevin Warren:

movies and like, sitting on the couch doing nothing or me just

Kevin Warren:

being in my room. And I will say, I didn't know how to have

Kevin Warren:

healthy friendship. And my family doesn't, is learning how

Kevin Warren:

to have healthy friendship, current and currently. Yeah,

Rob Gent:

Kevin, thank you. This is such an amazing story, if I

Rob Gent:

could, when did you recognize or begin to understand that there

Rob Gent:

was this adoption? And how did your parents create an

Rob Gent:

environment around the adoption story?

Kevin Warren:

I remember being maybe eight or nine and I'm sure

Kevin Warren:

they told me I was adopted before this, but this is this is

Kevin Warren:

when they when I remember. And my mom, I think we were having

Kevin Warren:

some kind of conversation and I don't I never ended up having

Kevin Warren:

the experience of being a I don't know what the technical

Kevin Warren:

word for it would be but lashing out about You're not my mom,

Kevin Warren:

you're not my dad. You know, I did have moments of that and I

Kevin Warren:

but I think it it showed itself in in a different way than a lot

Kevin Warren:

of kids wood. It wasn't necessarily an anger or hatred.

Kevin Warren:

But it was in insecurity and anxiety. And again, before we go

Kevin Warren:

into the story you just told me I remember being Probably around

Kevin Warren:

that age, and my family had friends over. And that didn't

Kevin Warren:

happen very often. And I was in my bedroom, and I just needed to

Kevin Warren:

go to the restroom. And for some reason, I couldn't muster up the

Kevin Warren:

courage to get myself out of my room to walk down the hall. And

Kevin Warren:

I was so riddled with anxiety that for some reason, I

Kevin Warren:

couldn't, like I just I physically couldn't open my

Kevin Warren:

door, or froze. Yeah. And, and so I, I've actually thought

Kevin Warren:

about that over the last few years of just like, I wonder

Kevin Warren:

where that was rooted from, or I wonder where that came from?

Kevin Warren:

Because that's a very abnormal experience. Really think it? It

Kevin Warren:

was it was anxiety, clearly. But again, I didn't know how to be

Kevin Warren:

around people very well. And so but going back to your question,

Kevin Warren:

my mom told me, you know, you're adopted, and we would love to

Kevin Warren:

partner with you with finding your biological family, whenever

Kevin Warren:

you feel ready. And was this throughout your life, this was

Kevin Warren:

throughout my life, they were always very supportive. And that

Kevin Warren:

meant a lot to me. Deep down, I always knew I wanted it to be my

Kevin Warren:

own journey. But knowing that they were willing to help, I

Kevin Warren:

think meant a lot to me. And yeah, I remember my mom saying

Kevin Warren:

your biological mother was beautiful. I've only seen

Kevin Warren:

pictures. But she was beautiful. And she smoked. And, you know, I

Kevin Warren:

think that was about it. So in my mind, I had put up this like,

Kevin Warren:

and this is also so strange, I but I'll share anyway. But I

Kevin Warren:

remember, like, even to this day, I remember thinking that I

Kevin Warren:

saw, like a woman that fit in my mind who my biological mother

Kevin Warren:

was, like being taken out of the hospital in a wheelchair. And

Kevin Warren:

she had blonde curly hair. And for some reason, I think that

Kevin Warren:

was just like, either a dream I had, or an association I had in

Kevin Warren:

my head of like, how to have a personal relationship with my

Kevin Warren:

biological mother, because I never did. So I somehow created

Kevin Warren:

one in my mind. She doesn't have blonde curly hair, by the way.

Kevin Warren:

But um, but for some reason, I created that moment in my mind,

Kevin Warren:

and I think it made me feel comforted. Yeah, of course. And

Kevin Warren:

so anyways, just I mean, that's a normal thing, I think. And if

Kevin Warren:

there's people out there that are experiencing the same thing,

Kevin Warren:

I mean, I, I also wanted to give myself grace and not like,

Kevin Warren:

looking back, I was like, Oh, why am I like having these

Kevin Warren:

thoughts? Or why? Like, is this real? Is this true? And I even

Kevin Warren:

brought it up to my mom, and was like, is this like, and she's

Kevin Warren:

like, now? I don't know where that's coming from, you know,

Kevin Warren:

but for some reason, it was comforting to me. But I

Rob Gent:

don't want to say yeah, in knowing and treating

Rob Gent:

adoption for such a long time, it seems to be a very normative

Rob Gent:

thing that I've heard lots of people say, like, I was

Rob Gent:

convinced that I would recognize them on a street. Oh, yeah, I

Rob Gent:

had this vision of what they would look like. So right, me

Rob Gent:

and right, you know, like, I was always kind of hyper vigilant

Rob Gent:

for looking out for them. So yeah, it's I love that you

Rob Gent:

shared that because it's Yeah, it sounds like it's somewhat of

Rob Gent:

a normative thing for us to be able to create an image that is

Rob Gent:

that we can hold on to and helps to maybe calm us a little bit.

Rob Gent:

Yeah. There is this figure in my life. So I know. Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

that's comforting to know that that's not an

Kevin Warren:

abnormal thing. No.

Rob Gent:

I think it is quite normal, actually. Yeah. Yeah. So

Rob Gent:

but

Kevin Warren:

yeah, they were always very open to supporting

Kevin Warren:

me and, and that meant a lot.

Rob Gent:

That's incredible. So when the whole time do you have

Rob Gent:

this intuitive sense, I guess that I have this adoption story,

Rob Gent:

right. My sister does too. But my sister is reacting much

Rob Gent:

differently than me. Right? She's treating my parents much

Rob Gent:

differently than I am. I wonder how that is growing up? Like

Rob Gent:

you're both adopted? But I wonder if for you, how do you

Rob Gent:

feel about your parents? You know, is there a connection feel

Rob Gent:

a sense of all of this and your sisters reacting a certain way?

Rob Gent:

I just wonder what that's like to have. Right? To what seems

Rob Gent:

like different experiences, even though there's adoption with the

Rob Gent:

same two people what, what that was like for you? Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

like what it was like for me to experience in

Kevin Warren:

real time, or what it seems like now.

Rob Gent:

Well, just in real time, I wonder what it's like to

Rob Gent:

be Kevin and like, Gosh, I really care for these people.

Rob Gent:

And I feel like they care about yeah, here. Your sister is kind

Rob Gent:

of really wrestling with them and stuff. What if that was a

Rob Gent:

bit of a challenge for you,

Kevin Warren:

too? Yeah. No, I think it probably was trying to

Kevin Warren:

think back to what I felt and what I was experiencing. I mean,

Kevin Warren:

I remember. I remember. Anytime that we would try to go on

Kevin Warren:

either road trips together or vacations together. It was

Kevin Warren:

always a My parents always were extremely stressed and And they

Kevin Warren:

didn't necessarily want, they wanted to go, but they didn't

Kevin Warren:

want to go, if that makes sense. And, and it was hard for me

Kevin Warren:

because I knew that my mom was going to be frazzled and

Kevin Warren:

stressed out. And my dad was going to be just kind of a

Kevin Warren:

little bit distant. And I knew, I think, deep down that they

Kevin Warren:

were just trying to cope with how to handle my sister. And me.

Kevin Warren:

I mean, I was far from a perfect child. I mean, and there was

Kevin Warren:

some normal brotherly moments where I would stir the pot a

Kevin Warren:

little bit, and all that kind of stuff. But I think really, it

Kevin Warren:

was really hard for me to see my sister treating my parents that

Kevin Warren:

way. And I think in the moment, it was hard. But really, when I

Kevin Warren:

saw the repercussions of what was happening to my mom, and my

Kevin Warren:

dad was what was the hardest?

Rob Gent:

So talk to me, Kevin, thank you tell me a little bit

Rob Gent:

about I was going to school and like high school like, Yeah.

Rob Gent:

People know you were adopted. Assumption. Yeah. How was your

Rob Gent:

significant rise growing up for you? Yeah.

Kevin Warren:

Okay. Well, first of all, seventh grade is awkward

Kevin Warren:

for all of us. And so I'd say, Yeah, you know, there was on top

Kevin Warren:

of just being awkward. It was also like, I didn't want anyone

Kevin Warren:

to know that I was adopted. So I didn't share with anyone that I

Kevin Warren:

was adopted.

Rob Gent:

Do you do look like your parents? Or?

Kevin Warren:

I actually, somewhat do I kind of look like

Kevin Warren:

my dad. So that worked out in my favor. So you can get away with

Kevin Warren:

ride right? out a lot of kids, though, don't that are adopted.

Kevin Warren:

So, you know, so that must be a totally different experience for

Kevin Warren:

them. But either way, I didn't want people to know. And there

Kevin Warren:

was a sense of shame around being adopted for me, and

Kevin Warren:

especially when when people would make jokes like, Oh, he's

Kevin Warren:

adopted, or things like that. But they didn't know that, that

Kevin Warren:

I actually was. And for me, I was like, Oh, well, haha, just

Kevin Warren:

kind of like thinking it's funny. But it actually was a

Kevin Warren:

little bit like hurtful and kind of like, dug down even more of

Kevin Warren:

that feeling of like, well, they can't know I'm adopted, because

Kevin Warren:

they're gonna think I'm weird. And looking back. I'm not sure

Kevin Warren:

why I felt that way. I am sure. There was so many reasons. But

Kevin Warren:

now I'm so open about it and so comfortable in who I am. That it

Kevin Warren:

almost feels like man, I wish I could tell little me like it's

Kevin Warren:

okay. I love you. I'm proud of you. And like, this is a part of

Kevin Warren:

like, who you are. And it's a good thing. But I think it was

Kevin Warren:

just the nature of me being young, immature, and just not

Kevin Warren:

knowing how to handle it rinse. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah,

Rob Gent:

for sure. So yeah, that part of you was you, I'm

Rob Gent:

hearing you saying, I was trying to keep that a little hidden,

Rob Gent:

right. Even the junior high through high school. Fourth,

Kevin Warren:

fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth, and probably

Kevin Warren:

freshman year of high school was was, I mean, freshman year, I

Kevin Warren:

wouldn't say that it was like me trying to hide it. But, um, I, I

Kevin Warren:

was a little bit more comfortable. But once I started

Kevin Warren:

getting into like, middle high school years again, and I

Kevin Warren:

really, even until, like the past five years have really been

Kevin Warren:

the pivotal time for me to learn what it's like to have

Kevin Warren:

relationship and have close friendship, because I didn't

Kevin Warren:

feel like that was modeled for me in my wife. And I spent a lot

Kevin Warren:

of my young youth just isolated. And I mean, I had a few friends

Kevin Warren:

for sure that were really, really close. And then I had

Kevin Warren:

like, you know, the normal people at school that I'd hang

Kevin Warren:

out with here and there, but

Rob Gent:

but this social, relational thing you were like,

Rob Gent:

Yeah, my family wasn't real big on it. Right? It wasn't modeled

Rob Gent:

for me. So whether you use the term isolation before it, was

Rob Gent:

there a sense of maybe withdrawal or internalizing, or

Rob Gent:

I would even maybe use the term loneliness.

Kevin Warren:

Yeah, yeah, I would. And I think that that was

Kevin Warren:

primarily, the biggest thing. In probably junior high to freshman

Kevin Warren:

year was when that was the deepest. And that was just me

Kevin Warren:

being in my room. And really intentionally isolating myself

Kevin Warren:

from my family. So

Rob Gent:

through later into high school, it's, you're coming

Rob Gent:

to more acceptance about your adoption story, right? Yeah. So

Rob Gent:

maybe, yeah. When does Kevin start to really embrace this

Rob Gent:

journey? And when do you start to think about a search my

Kevin Warren:

sophomore year of high school, my family started

Kevin Warren:

getting involved in church a little bit more, which meant

Kevin Warren:

there's a realistic and an actual community around you

Kevin Warren:

more. And so I started learning what it's like to have healthier

Kevin Warren:

community with people and I ended up going to a winter camp

Kevin Warren:

at that church and believe it or not, they spoke on fatherhood.

Kevin Warren:

And for me, that was very, very personal for me. And I'm I had,

Kevin Warren:

specifically they were talking about in, in my faith

Kevin Warren:

Christianity, it's Jesus as the Father. And so they were talking

Kevin Warren:

on that and, and that really hit home for me and of learning that

Kevin Warren:

I have a father that I can trust in heaven. And who sees me for

Kevin Warren:

who I am. I deep down believe the the complete restoration and

Kevin Warren:

healing that that happened for me was was around that. And I

Kevin Warren:

felt like I was able to have a personal relationship with God.

Kevin Warren:

And and that was healing because I just hadn't really had much

Kevin Warren:

relationship. And yeah, I don't know if that helps. But

Rob Gent:

yeah, did that that grounding or that healing, as

Rob Gent:

you described it, help you to go on this search? Yes. Journey.

Rob Gent:

And yeah, maybe talk about glad you asked that question. When

Rob Gent:

did that? Yeah. Yeah. So

Kevin Warren:

I think like, around the time of finding my

Kevin Warren:

faith for myself, and all of that I really wanted to know,

Kevin Warren:

who I was, in a more deep sense, I really feel like around that

Kevin Warren:

time was when I started developing a greater sense of

Kevin Warren:

it's okay for me to be creative. It's okay for me to all of the

Kevin Warren:

things that in my past, I was so worried about people knowing too

Kevin Warren:

much about or Oh, is being creative, unmanly? Or is, you

Kevin Warren:

know, this or that, or? And so I really was like, Okay, this is

Kevin Warren:

my, this is the start my journey to figure out where I come from?

Kevin Warren:

And do I look like them? Am I interested in the same things?

Kevin Warren:

Are they creative, too? Or, you know, what are they like? And I

Kevin Warren:

want to figure that out? My Yes, thank you for clarifying my

Kevin Warren:

biological family. And then there was also just the

Kevin Warren:

practicals of like, well, I want to know, like, what medical

Kevin Warren:

issues do they have that I need to be aware of, and all of that.

Kevin Warren:

And so I remember sitting on my bed with Facebook Open, and I

Kevin Warren:

was sitting there, and I was like, I want to know, who to

Kevin Warren:

search for, but I don't know. And so I went out aims or

Kevin Warren:

anything. So I remember my dad telling me that medical records

Kevin Warren:

were in the family safe, which I had access to. And so I didn't

Kevin Warren:

tell my family that I was doing this. And they were okay.

Kevin Warren:

Because they told me that they would help me in the past. And

Kevin Warren:

they were very open about it. And I ended up bringing them

Kevin Warren:

into this whole experience. And it was awesome. But I remember

Kevin Warren:

going out there and I was like, I'm going to find my medical

Kevin Warren:

records. How

Rob Gent:

old are you at this point? 2020. Okay, well,

Kevin Warren:

I found my medical records. And I remember seeing

Kevin Warren:

the name Mandy Gibbons on there. And I was like, that's a name

Kevin Warren:

that I don't recognize. So I'm going to search that on

Kevin Warren:

Facebook. And, and then I saw my biological mother's name on

Kevin Warren:

there as well. And so I searched that to so many different

Kevin Warren:

results came up. And so I drafted a little form DM,

Kevin Warren:

message, and I just copied and pasted that everyone. Hi, my

Kevin Warren:

name is Kevin Warren. But my name at birth was Devin James

Kevin Warren:

Freeman, which is believe it or not true, hopefully, they'd be

Kevin Warren:

able to put pieces together. And about four months later, I get a

Kevin Warren:

response. And, and it's Mandy Gibbons. And she said, we've

Kevin Warren:

been looking for you our whole life. But we've been looking for

Kevin Warren:

the guy named Devin. And we had no idea your name was changed to

Kevin Warren:

Kevin. Looking back, believe it or not, they actually like they

Kevin Warren:

suggested that my name maybe change because it was more of a

Kevin Warren:

hostile adoption. And, and my parents just like the name Kevin

Kevin Warren:

versus Devon, I guess. I don't know. And so that was crazy to

Kevin Warren:

read that message. And then she put me in touch with my

Kevin Warren:

biological mother. Who was that lady? That was my half sister.

Kevin Warren:

Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah. And so she put me in touch with my

Kevin Warren:

biological mother. And that was a very emotional phone call.

Rob Gent:

So did she so dial the number. So she,

Kevin Warren:

she told me that, you know, this person might not

Kevin Warren:

be prepared to hear from you. But here's her phone number. And

Kevin Warren:

so I did call. And I believe that Mandy kind of called her

Kevin Warren:

prior and said, you might be getting this call, which I'm

Kevin Warren:

thankful she did. I would recommend that for anyone going

Kevin Warren:

through this experience a little. Yes. And I think that

Kevin Warren:

really helped. But it was I remember her my biological

Kevin Warren:

mother saying, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to give you up. I

Kevin Warren:

didn't want you to be adopted. I wish I could give you a better

Kevin Warren:

life and all of this stuff. And yeah, she said this to me. And I

Kevin Warren:

remember, I remember because I felt in my heart I was I was

Kevin Warren:

ready to forgive her. I'm sure for a lot of people. They need

Kevin Warren:

extra time to go through that. And part of me was glad that I

Kevin Warren:

waited until I was ready for all of that because really like even

Kevin Warren:

though I did live a good life there was still a part of me

Kevin Warren:

that was like, oh, like why? You know? And so I was able to say,

Kevin Warren:

Hey, I love you, I forgive you. And I'm not mad at you. And she

Kevin Warren:

just broke down. And this was over the phone. This was over

Kevin Warren:

the phone. And, you know, I don't think she was able to

Kevin Warren:

receive it deep down in that moment, but I think I think it

Kevin Warren:

meant a lot. And so that was the first conversation I had with

Kevin Warren:

one of my biological family members. There

Rob Gent:

must have been, I mean, you'll never forget that.

Rob Gent:

No, it's amazing. Yeah. And then you said your half sister are

Rob Gent:

there to your biological mom had other children? She did. So she

Kevin Warren:

had two daughters. And they're both related to each

Kevin Warren:

other full blood. And then I have a half brother, who I'm is

Kevin Warren:

not related to them fully on the father's side. So there's

Kevin Warren:

multiple fathers in the picture here. And then there's me. So I

Kevin Warren:

have a total of three siblings. So they knew about you. They

Kevin Warren:

knew that I existed, but they didn't know because my name none

Kevin Warren:

of them are given up for adoption. Correct? None of them

Kevin Warren:

were. Yeah, my half brother was actually in I think it was close

Kevin Warren:

to like nine or 10 foster homes in his life. Because my

Kevin Warren:

biological mother only recently got sober. Wow.

Rob Gent:

Yeah. And the two girls that they live with her,

Kevin Warren:

they ended up living with their dad with her.

Kevin Warren:

Yeah.

Rob Gent:

So it's, it's been kind of shattered home

Rob Gent:

experience for all of you guys. Yeah. How has that been to? Do

Rob Gent:

you talk with them? Yes, I

Kevin Warren:

keep mostly in touch with my half brother. And

Kevin Warren:

he has had a very rough childhood. So with him being in

Kevin Warren:

multiple foster homes, there was a lot of like, turbulence and

Kevin Warren:

his, you know? Yeah, life, addiction to alcohol and drugs

Kevin Warren:

and stuff like that are definitely a part of it. I know,

Kevin Warren:

he just actually recently admitted himself into a care

Kevin Warren:

facility to, to, to get help from that stuff. And so that's

Kevin Warren:

huge. Yeah, I went out in can't remember what year 2015 to meet

Kevin Warren:

my biological mother and to meet him. Because at that time,

Kevin Warren:

that's all that's all who knew? All who I knew, and met them

Kevin Warren:

and, and hung out with them for a little bit and just got to

Kevin Warren:

know them. And it was definitely weird. But it was good. Yeah. So

Kevin Warren:

it's

Rob Gent:

amazing, Kevin, that you were able to many people, I

Rob Gent:

don't know that. Especially seeing like some of the

Rob Gent:

collateral damage after you were born. Having siblings. Yeah, to

Rob Gent:

move to a place of forgiveness. Yeah. Really incredible. Because

Rob Gent:

lots of times. Doing your search is always very interesting for

Rob Gent:

me, because in talking to people who are about to Embark on their

Rob Gent:

search, specifically teens, you kind of have to prepare yourself

Rob Gent:

for the worst, for sure. And hope for the best. Yeah. But I

Rob Gent:

mean, I don't know what it was like for you. But I'm sure some

Rob Gent:

of that I have to be prepared for maybe there's some rejection

Rob Gent:

or maybe right rekindle, right. Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

I'd say I probably felt ready for for that

Kevin Warren:

rejection. And I'm glad I waited until I was ready for that.

Kevin Warren:

Because if I if I had done it when I was younger, I probably

Kevin Warren:

well, first of all, she probably wouldn't have been in a very

Kevin Warren:

healthy place. But again, for me, I believe that was all like,

Kevin Warren:

God's timing. But I think for a lot of people, it's just like,

Kevin Warren:

are you ready to experience the worst? You know, because, like,

Kevin Warren:

for me, I had come to a place where I was okay with who I was.

Kevin Warren:

And my identity wasn't in my adoption story anymore. That I

Kevin Warren:

was okay with whatever she was going to say. Like I honestly,

Kevin Warren:

it would have been hurtful if she said, I don't ever want to

Kevin Warren:

talk to you again. But I think I would have been ready to hear

Kevin Warren:

it.

Rob Gent:

Because I would have been okay without that. Right,

Rob Gent:

as I'm thinking about this. So you're 20 something years old,

Rob Gent:

you're going through this, I would imagine there's a certain

Rob Gent:

amount of conflict and psychism. I'm grateful for the things that

Rob Gent:

I have, because it could have been worse, right? Yeah. And so

Rob Gent:

you're grateful for that. But yet, there's still there's still

Rob Gent:

a lot of pain associated with, right with that whole situation.

Rob Gent:

Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

for sure. I think I've got to walk a fine line

Kevin Warren:

because it's like I, I, my life probably was a little bit less.

Kevin Warren:

All over the place. And it would have been if I wasn't adopted,

Kevin Warren:

but I also had my own struggles with being adopted. So yeah, you

Kevin Warren:

know, yeah,

Rob Gent:

yeah. Really amazing. So I mean, I met you and we,

Rob Gent:

you've been married and we talked about your wife and I I'm

Rob Gent:

just yeah, just dying of curiosity, how has that played

Rob Gent:

out in your relationships? Yeah, if you don't mind sharing that

Rob Gent:

I'd love to share. Yeah, that'd be awesome. Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

I really would say that. It hasn't affected it as

Kevin Warren:

much as I would think. But but it's very possible it affects it

Kevin Warren:

in ways that I'm not aware of. But when when we're thinking on,

Kevin Warren:

you know, areas of anxiety or overthinking things or dwelling

Kevin Warren:

on thoughts, I definitely early on in our marriage, Katie and

Kevin Warren:

I's marriage, it was like, I would come up with scenarios in

Kevin Warren:

my head of what could happen, or am I going to be liked? Or what

Kevin Warren:

are they going to think of me? Or did I say the right thing, or

Kevin Warren:

really just like self sabotaging myself for either saying the

Kevin Warren:

wrong thing, or sounding weird when I said it, or anything like

Kevin Warren:

that, to where it was like, Oh, well, I'm gonna, like, actually,

Kevin Warren:

emotionally make myself pay for that. Because like that, that

Kevin Warren:

wasn't good. And it was really strange. It was almost like a

Kevin Warren:

way for me to learn how to be better. And, and that's not

Kevin Warren:

something necessarily that that I struggle with anymore. But

Kevin Warren:

I'm, I'm not sure exactly where that ties into everything. But I

Kevin Warren:

remember Katie, really helping me into that. And now I will say

Kevin Warren:

that, first, that I don't have a codependent relationship with

Kevin Warren:

her in any way. And then I've gone through a ton of healing

Kevin Warren:

before getting married. But you know, there is a sense of, you

Kevin Warren:

know, when you marry someone, you marry them, and they know

Kevin Warren:

all of you. And they experienced the highs and the lows, and the

Kevin Warren:

good and the bad. And so she was experiencing that in that

Kevin Warren:

moment, like the bad things like the all those things. And it

Kevin Warren:

really was a beautiful thing for me to be able to bring her into

Kevin Warren:

that moment, I think there was a sense of me having to be okay

Kevin Warren:

with bringing her into that and being like, I'm really

Kevin Warren:

struggling with my thoughts right now. And I can't, I'm

Kevin Warren:

really struggling with letting this go. And, and even to this

Kevin Warren:

day, that was that was probably three years ago, but to this

Kevin Warren:

day, there's times here and there. It's not as consistent as

Kevin Warren:

it was. But there's times where she says, Hey, Kev, like you

Kevin Warren:

need to just let it go. Like, this isn't helping anything,

Kevin Warren:

what you said was fine, it's not a big deal. And you need to just

Kevin Warren:

let it go. And I'm so thankful for that, because I married

Kevin Warren:

somebody strong. But I think that, that that could have been

Kevin Warren:

associated with, you know, feelings of abandonment, or not

Kevin Warren:

being good enough, or any of that kind of stuff and me having

Kevin Warren:

to protect myself from not being good enough. In some way. I

Kevin Warren:

don't know if that helps. But I'd say in, in the big picture.

Kevin Warren:

That's probably one of the biggest things and I do feel

Kevin Warren:

like I've gotten to a place where I can have and receive

Kevin Warren:

affection in a greater way than I think I would have. When I was

Kevin Warren:

younger. You

Rob Gent:

use the term early on to be known. And as you're

Rob Gent:

describing your wife, I'm hearing that yeah, like, you

Rob Gent:

feel truly known. But the thoughts the insecurities,

Rob Gent:

right, all have that she knows you. Right? And for a lot of

Rob Gent:

people especially with relinquishment, adoption

Rob Gent:

histories, because we have that primal wound. That sense of it's

Rob Gent:

terrifying. To let people not truly know you. Yeah, for a lot

Rob Gent:

of people. I don't know if you felt some of that. I use the

Rob Gent:

term terrifying. It really is.

Kevin Warren:

So terrifying.

Rob Gent:

Did you feel some of that? Yeah, I

Kevin Warren:

did. I I honestly think that in my first serious

Kevin Warren:

relationship, where I was thinking about marriage, I think

Kevin Warren:

was a much darker time for me of like really struggling with

Kevin Warren:

like, Am I okay with this person actually knowing me? I don't

Kevin Warren:

know if I am. And that was years and years ago. But I think that

Kevin Warren:

that's a normal thing to experience. And I really did

Kevin Warren:

have a fear and it did come up when I was dating my current my

Kevin Warren:

my wife, Katie. And I remember being on on dates and almost

Kevin Warren:

feeling like I had to put on a facade a little bit. And part of

Kevin Warren:

that could also be human. You know, we get comfortable with

Kevin Warren:

people once we hang out with them more. But, but there was a

Kevin Warren:

sense of like, having to put on almost like a show. But I had to

Kevin Warren:

I had to get myself to a place where I was no longer okay with

Kevin Warren:

putting on a show. But I was okay with letting go. Of my of

Kevin Warren:

my need to be perfect. And just be known. It really was a

Kevin Warren:

journey that probably was close to five years. into while Yeah,

Kevin Warren:

and I mean still, but at least I feel like I'm at a place where I

Kevin Warren:

can let people in. And

Rob Gent:

Kevin, part of the, the specialness, of getting to

Rob Gent:

speak with you is, in knowing you just for a little while that

Rob Gent:

I have is that there's always been this constant awareness of

Rob Gent:

working. Like I've heard from you, I'm willing to share my

Rob Gent:

story. I'm pushing myself, you exude this really admirable

Rob Gent:

quality of I haven't arrived. Right. But I'm healing thing

Rob Gent:

every day. Yeah, takes an effort. I want to really

Rob Gent:

recognize that if that's okay, that's great. Thank you. And I

Rob Gent:

feel like even being here right now, like Robin willing to

Rob Gent:

share, I want to push myself. Yeah. Because believe it or not,

Rob Gent:

to those of you who haven't known you forever, right? Just

Rob Gent:

getting to known you. I would have never guessed the social

Rob Gent:

awkwardness or the isolation or all of that stuff. And you're,

Rob Gent:

you're so engaging and friendly. But I know at some level, some

Rob Gent:

of that's natural. But as you would say, I think you've really

Rob Gent:

made it a concerted effort to, to pursue that and grow. I

Kevin Warren:

have. Yeah, so that means a lot. Thank you.

Kevin Warren:

Yeah,

Rob Gent:

I just yeah, it's just such a remarkable story. So

Rob Gent:

catch us up. So we have this amazing story. So bring us into

Rob Gent:

the current now. How's your relationship with your folks?

Rob Gent:

You know, it sounds like your relationship with your marriage

Rob Gent:

is really in a state of progress and really providing you with

Rob Gent:

what you need. Funny,

Kevin Warren:

funny that we're doing this now, last night

Kevin Warren:

actually spent, like probably close to four hours on

Kevin Warren:

ancestry.com, building out my family tree. And so I did a DNA

Kevin Warren:

biological and adoptive. Oh, just biological, just

Kevin Warren:

biological. Yeah. And because I just wanted to see where lineage

Kevin Warren:

was an ancestors and all that kind of stuff. And so I talked

Kevin Warren:

to my biological father and my biological mother. On a fairly

Kevin Warren:

normal basis, I'd say, once a month, fairly. So that's not,

Kevin Warren:

you know, by any means. A regular cadence, but I'd say we

Kevin Warren:

have a healthy good relationship. And so really

Kevin Warren:

quick, I don't, you know, my I met my biological father, only

Kevin Warren:

about two years ago, because for most of my from 2015 or so, to

Kevin Warren:

2021, I thought that my biological father was a

Kevin Warren:

different man who he really was. And so I had this and again,

Kevin Warren:

like, I wanted to trust my feelings, because I had a

Kevin Warren:

feeling that something wasn't right. I had a feeling that my

Kevin Warren:

biological father wasn't who I was told he was. So I did a DNA

Kevin Warren:

test, and found out that that was not Bucha father, and this

Kevin Warren:

man who, you know, this man, and I had established a relationship

Kevin Warren:

with him and all of that, and so ended up doing the DNA test and

Kevin Warren:

actually hired or not hired, but consulted. They're called Search

Kevin Warren:

angels. And it's just a bunch of people who are really into

Kevin Warren:

genealogy and, and, and like to help people find their family.

Kevin Warren:

So they found my biological father. And then we went out to

Kevin Warren:

actually go to a wedding of on my adoptive, you know, side of a

Kevin Warren:

cousin of mine to Bend, Oregon. And we actually met my

Kevin Warren:

biological father there. But it was kind of cool seeing him and

Kevin Warren:

seeing his charisma. And he's also had a very hard struggle

Kevin Warren:

with substance use as well, but actually has gone to, he spent

Kevin Warren:

some time at believe it's called the shepherd's house. And it's a

Kevin Warren:

place where they go to just recover past addicts. And he's

Kevin Warren:

actually now a mentor there. And he works at a restaurant now.

Kevin Warren:

And so it's just been really cool. Being able to have

Kevin Warren:

relationship with him over the phone. I think one time,

Kevin Warren:

recently, I told him on the phone, he, he said, You know,

Kevin Warren:

I've actually I've got to go. I've got to go back to work. But

Kevin Warren:

it was so good talking to you. And this was probably after we

Kevin Warren:

had been talking for a couple years off and on every other

Kevin Warren:

month or every month, and then he kind of paused for a second.

Kevin Warren:

And then he said, You know actually, I don't know why I

Kevin Warren:

just lied. I don't have to go but I was just really

Kevin Warren:

uncomfortable. And I said, you know, Adrian, like, that's okay.

Kevin Warren:

Like I'm uncomfortable to, you know, but like, we're gonna,

Kevin Warren:

we're gonna be okay. And I think that was a really beautiful

Kevin Warren:

moment because it kind of like that realization that like, you

Kevin Warren:

know, it's okay to be uncomfortable. And this is like,

Kevin Warren:

honestly, pretty freakin wild. And so like, it's just gonna be

Kevin Warren:

a little bit strange.

Rob Gent:

So did he know that you existed prior? So he was

Rob Gent:

actually

Kevin Warren:

one of those if we take it back to the very

Kevin Warren:

beginning of my story, he was actually he like, looked at my

Kevin Warren:

eyes when he was at the hospital and he said that must not be

Kevin Warren:

mine. Because I had different colored eyes than him. And so

Kevin Warren:

for him, there was that feeling of, I should have chose you. Or

Kevin Warren:

I should have known, but he didn't. And, you know, for it,

Kevin Warren:

that's not his fault by any means. In fact, I think that my

Kevin Warren:

biological mother was actually saying, No, he probably isn't

Kevin Warren:

yours. And so for him, there was a lot of shame around, I let you

Kevin Warren:

go. But that wasn't the case at all.

Rob Gent:

So let me ask you a question. Kevin, as we head

Rob Gent:

towards the end of this. How is your journey in your search and

Rob Gent:

finding them? How has that impacted your life? And in the

Rob Gent:

other question is for many of our listeners who have adoption

Rob Gent:

stories, there's a lot of people who, for whatever reason, might

Rob Gent:

not have the opportunity or their, you know, their stories.

Rob Gent:

Just, it is what it is. And Brian, we're gonna find there,

Rob Gent:

Brian's right, maybe speak to both of those. Yeah. For me,

Kevin Warren:

I'd say the biggest thing for me, I truly

Kevin Warren:

believe, to this day, if I, if I didn't find my biological

Kevin Warren:

family, I would still be okay. And that's because I found

Kevin Warren:

something other than them to put my identity and, and, for me,

Kevin Warren:

that was my faith. And so that that, for me, was the biggest

Kevin Warren:

thing. I really, truly would say, if I didn't find my

Kevin Warren:

biological mother and biological father, I would, I would still

Kevin Warren:

be able to function as a healthy adult, and, you know, be

Kevin Warren:

married, because that's a choice I made. And so I think that it's

Kevin Warren:

really important to have something other than that, to

Kevin Warren:

put your identity in, because we all struggle with identity

Kevin Warren:

issues, right? It's just part of being human.

Rob Gent:

So for a lot of, you know, people listening, and

Rob Gent:

they're never going to get that closure or meet them. You're

Rob Gent:

saying there can be some healing, even though maybe

Rob Gent:

there's not that opportunity, for whatever reason, there can

Rob Gent:

be some

Kevin Warren:

Yes, yes, I even think about just the, the

Kevin Warren:

relationships that I've had with friends and family that are

Kevin Warren:

aside from my biological family, I've made the choice to seek

Kevin Warren:

relationship and seek reconciliation. And so I think

Kevin Warren:

that it's really important to, above all else, try and find a

Kevin Warren:

way, even though it's probably going to be really hard, because

Kevin Warren:

there's shame and there's trauma, and there's anxiety, and

Kevin Warren:

there's depression, and all the things that come along with

Kevin Warren:

that, to to want to seclude or to want to lash out or want to

Kevin Warren:

be angry forever, and be angry at the universe, the people,

Kevin Warren:

your parents, whatever. But there's gotta be something.

Kevin Warren:

Yeah, really just takes you to a place of like, okay, I'm going

Kevin Warren:

to choose to love and I'm going to choose to be known, even if

Kevin Warren:

that's really, really hard, because it's going to be okay,

Kevin Warren:

on the other end.

Rob Gent:

really hard and really scary. Yeah. Yeah. Kevin, as we

Rob Gent:

shared today, please hear my ultimate gratitude. It's such a

Rob Gent:

gift to be able to hear your journey. And I wonder how many

Rob Gent:

people out there have your similar experience? One similar,

Rob Gent:

what is it that you'd like the listeners to really hear?

Kevin Warren:

Yeah, I'd like them to hear that, that there's

Kevin Warren:

hope. And I know that there's so many adoptees that that are

Kevin Warren:

angry, and are mad and are isolated, just like I did, and

Kevin Warren:

have things in them that they know that they're, you know,

Kevin Warren:

capable of whether it's you know, being an entrepreneur or

Kevin Warren:

whether it's being, you know, an artist or whatever it is, and I

Kevin Warren:

want them to know that they're loved, they're seen, and that

Kevin Warren:

they're experiencing something that's really hard for them. And

Kevin Warren:

that that's okay for it to be hard. But you're gonna be okay.

Kevin Warren:

You've just got to, like, again, like I said, I think it's really

Kevin Warren:

important to be known. Be okay with being known. And that

Kevin Warren:

journey of being okay with being known is a long road. But you're

Kevin Warren:

going to get there. For parents, one of the most encouraging

Kevin Warren:

things for me was when I saw my mom going and getting help, too,

Kevin Warren:

because I knew that that's modeled, and that's okay. If I'm

Kevin Warren:

not being okay, if I'm not okay, because my mom cares about, you

Kevin Warren:

know, being supportive and being, you know, okay, as well.

Rob Gent:

So let's, I know you've undergone therapy. And as

Rob Gent:

a therapist myself, I do want to make a little bit of push that

Rob Gent:

if you do have an adoption history, and that's part of a

Rob Gent:

relinquishment that, yeah, do a little investigation to make

Rob Gent:

sure that if you're seeing a therapist and that they have,

Rob Gent:

that their adoption competent, that's a great point that they

Rob Gent:

really be able to understand because oftentimes, in an effort

Rob Gent:

even as therapists we can want you to think your way out of

Rob Gent:

your pain and do all these things. But as you so eloquently

Rob Gent:

put, there's a big emotional piece and there's some healing

Rob Gent:

that has to happen. That's much deeper than Just thinking your

Rob Gent:

way out of because, you know, adoption and being having that

Rob Gent:

early separation, we call that oftentimes a primal wound. That

Rob Gent:

it's, it impacts us you can imagine that little going from a

Rob Gent:

fetus to the infant that's separated from a known

Rob Gent:

environment is, is a trauma told me and I love to think about all

Rob Gent:

the trauma of Little Kevin went through being separated, being

Rob Gent:

abused. And the way you're working on relationships, and

Rob Gent:

you've got some real relational success in your life. Yeah,

Rob Gent:

Kevin, this has been invaluable. It's been so good.

Kevin Warren:

Thank you for your time to Well,

Rob Gent:

thank you for sharing and this has been wonderful. I

Rob Gent:

just want to say thanks to Kevin for sharing his adoptive story.

Rob Gent:

If you have any more questions or like to get any more

Rob Gent:

information, please visit us at our website and Embark bh.com

Rob Gent:

And we look forward to seeing you on our next Roadmap to Joy.

Rob Gent:

Thanks, everybody. Thanks. Thanks.